Sept. 2, 2020

Chris Dickerson — Combating Climate Change and Inspiring Environmental Justice via Players for The Planet

Chris Dickerson — Combating Climate Change and Inspiring Environmental Justice via Players for The Planet

In our most raw and emotional episode of The Game Plan yet, former Major League Baseball player Chris Dickerson shares his perspective with Tim and Jay on the many things plaguing our world right now including climate change and the fight against racism and social injustice.

Dickerson put in service time as an outfielder for five different Major League clubs including the Cincinnati Reds, Milwaukee Brewers, New York Yankees, Baltimore Orioles, and Cleveland Indians, but is best known off the field for starting "Players for the Planet", a non-profit organization launched in 2011 to make sustainability and environmental responsibility foundational values of sport.

In this episode our guest shares his perspective on the catastrophic effects things like single-use plastics and e-waste are having on our planet, and how you as a listener can help affect change through better daily habits and awareness.

We also explore how the issue of climate change is connected with the social injustices that are currently in the national spotlight, and our guest shares his perspective on the recent player strikes across professional sports leagues.

You can follow Chris Dickerson on Twitter and Instagram, as well as Players for the Planet to follow everything Chris is up to and to see how you can get involved in the fight against climate change.

Follow co-hosts Jay Kapoor (@JayKapoorNYC) and Tim Katt (@Tim_Katt) for all things sports, media, tech, and venture capital.

Follow The Game Plan on Twitter (@thegameplanshow) and Instagram (@gameplanshow) for show news and updates, to recommend guests, and for bonus content!


Transcript

*Please excuse any and all typos, errors and mistakes in the following transcript as we use an automated service to generate this text*

 

 I mean, I grew up in Southern California and I mean, our state is on fire again. you know, it's crazy. It's just, it's crazy. This, the state is on fire again, you know, the snowpack gets worse and worse every year.

It's more unpredictable.  you know, I've been, I've been sick. I've seen friends get really sick and the ocean from, from, the, just the irresponsibility of the runoff in local beach side communities and developments. I went on field trips to the mountains and I understand,  what we're doing to these natural habitats, like we're still shooting mountain lions that we've been tracking for 20 years and they're just keep falling off because we just feel like this need, that 

they have no rights, natural ecosystem. That is, that is earth. And when, whenever we feel threatened by what is naturally supposed to do what they're supposed to do and do we basically shoot them down. you know, that's why I started player for the planet

Hey everybody. This is Chris Dickerson, former major league outfielder cofounder players for the planet. And this is the game plan

Hey, Tim, how's it going? I was thinking that we've been doing this show now for about six months and, you know, we have quite a few conversations off the mic, but we never really get to put them on the show and especially with everything going on this week and last week. And. The conversation that we just had with, with Chris Dickerson, I kinda just wanted to start this week by asking, like, how are you doing, man?

I'm doing all right. There's a lot going on. And I think what's been really challenging. I feel pretty conflicted, especially as it relates to our show. Like, you know, who, who are we putting this out there for? Like, do we, should we be even talking about the stuff that's going on? I think in this show that we did with Chris, I mean, he couldn't help, but share his perspective.

And it was really interesting, what we get into, which is the parallels between, I mean, these massive things that are going on and affecting our world, from the light that's being shown on social injustice, obviously the Coldwell pandemic. And then I, I kind of feel like embarrassed and, was questioning myself a lot as we were getting into the interview because I was like, Oh shit, I forgot about climate change.

Like I forgot about this monumental issue. And so it's one of the things, obviously we dig into a lot with his work and with players for the planet. And we also touch on the sensitive issues around just what's going on and how could we not with all the players going on strike and on a Wednesday and Thursday, how are you 

doing?

Yeah, that's, that's the thing that I think I struggle with the most, which is. There, there are these challenges that feel so insurmountable and, and you kind of come to the point where you're like, okay, well, that's, that's the government that's going to deal with it. Or, you know, somebody else is going to talk about it and that's not my problem.

Right? No. And I think that's the, the, the feeling of like feeling numb to these things. And it's just like a daily thing.  Right. And. I think that's exactly what the activists and the folks that are advocating are talking about, which is that you can't allow yourself to get in. I'm like you, you exacerbate the problem.

You actually make it worse by standing still and not talking about it. And the tough thing for us is like, yeah, we, we are a, a business show. We're a sports show and we know why our audience tunes in, but at the same time, like we are presenting a full picture. And you can't be a full human being. You can't be your full self.

If you can't share these things and share how it affects you. And so that's one thing that I struggled with a lot, which is like, how do we actually have these conversations? And, and should we be having these conversations?

Yeah, and I'm hopeful and thankful that our audience can come into this with an open mind and also understand like, at least for, you know, I'll speak for myself. I don't have it all figured out. I am a white male. Who's experienced a lot of privilege in his life. And so I don't have answers. I'm, I'm trying to educate myself and I hope that through the access and opportunities that you and I have gotten by being able to talk to our guests, You know, they have the opportunity to talk about whatever they want to talk about, whatever they're doing off the field, whatever's important to them.

Right. And we just want to bring that, those conversations to our audience. And

going back to the conversation we had with Chris, it goes to show like, and we've seen this with a lot of our guests.

Sometimes it's the guests that maybe our audience has never heard of that. Really has the loudest voice or, or, is making the greatest impact and is willing to share the most. And so I'm really thankful for that. And for our open and honesty was with us in this conversation. 

and he reminded us that these. Conversations and these challenges are interconnected, right? And, and it's not just the climate change is happening, separate from the pandemic, separate from social injustice they're related. And, and when climate change gets worse, it affects impoverished communities more than, you know, maybe it does the suburbs or something like that.

And so that's, I think where I take a lot of hope, which is that, you know, we are here as a platform to educate. We are here as an opportunity to shine a light on guests like Chris, who are going to have these tough conversations with us who are going to be open and raw with us about what they're feeling.

Because at the end of the day, it is about the complete human. It's not just about the stat line or the fantasy score. These are real individuals with real hopes and real passions. And. I just feel very lucky that we get to share it on the show. So without further ado, I would love to get to our conversation with former MLB player and now co founder of players for the planet, Chris Dickerson.

We hope you enjoy. 

All right. Cool, man. So help us understand a little bit about when you started to think about what you would do post baseball.

Man. you know,

when I was when I was

17, actually, yeah, man, I,  I started having major knee trouble when I was in high school. It started when I was like 12 or 13. I was already having, cartilage deterioration in my, in my, at the time was my right knee. And then it eventually, accelerated at a normal pace in my left knee.

so by the time I got that, my junior year of high school, I had already had an, fracture. and so yeah, the warning was, in edge has got through or just because, you know, going through a growth spurt, playing football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and hockey, like consecutively. Probably not the best thing when you're, you know, you're, you know, you're in that growth.

So I ended up having this one fractured and ended up being a lesion, which fall that fell out into the what's called the medial condyle of the femur right into the joint, et cetera. So how to have a six inch metal screw reattach. doc. so I spent half of my senior year on crutches. And you know, at that time it was basically like, if this doesn't work, you're not, you're not going to play organized sports.

So right then my mom went to, you know, my mom and dad both went to college. My mom corporate at Nissan, she went to Northeastern sure. Grad school, Boston university. And then this is also a lady that went back at like, you know, 55, 55 years old. And she went and got an international communications degree at Berkeley.

So. If that's not the lady who's going to tell you, you need to figure out your plan B then, and I don't know who else is going to be. so really, so she was just like and then that summer, I also though, as the first time I did an internship, I did an internship with PR in a media group. and so I was, you know, crutching into the office every day.

And that was like the first time that understood like the joy. And it was weird just watching. I saw firsthand the transformation of Nissan in the, in the, in the, in the nineties and the mid nineties. And if you guys remember like the maximum, the three 50 Z and like, you know, mr. was mr. K and it was like just the, the marketing.

And the programming into like the engagement was like, so next level. and I got to see it firsthand. Like I was at all these events, I was in all these awesome cars that was going to races. We're having, you know, these celebrities speak at the headquarters in LA and you know, my mom being on the communication side of things, like it was awesome.

And I was like, that's what I wanted to do. And to see the relaunch of the three 50 Z, which was, you know, a car that will forever live in Japanese lore, to see that and to see the actual physical reports of, you know, what the launch looks like, what the sales look like, what the target markets are and like do this is.

This is awesome. and then I went to college. I'm like, wow. You know, I was, I was a mediocre high school student and you're telling me that, get to go to college. I get to study marketing. Now I get to study like business. And that's what sent me to the next level.

And then. That was something that I like really enjoyed and I still enjoy to this day. You're not going to catch me reading, like Harry Potter. you're probably gonna, you know, you're probably gonna see me with like, you know, an HBR magazine or, you know, getting to yes. Or, you know, like venture deals or crossing the chasm, which I just suggested to a kid that was, you know, kind of like always hung around, you know, would always travel with his parents.

To some of these minor league teams and he ended up going to jail. He just graduated in the spring and he's wants to get into marketing. That was the first book that I suggested that he read was crossing the chasm. But it's something, it's something about that, there's a, there's their strategy and there's empathy that involved involved if that's involved in, in marketing.

Not only who the product applies to, but putting yourself in the position from a need of how it can make your life better, from multiple different uses, how it can, you know, either it's the convenience from maybe a health standpoint, from an everyday task standpoint to, you know, whatever, whatever the case is.

It's, it's identifying these pieces. That's so fascinating, but you also have to have a certain amount of empathy to put yourself in that position to see how it can truly help you and knowing where that person is coming from and to devise products to tackle that particular, You know, that particular issue that may be facing that particular demographic.

So I I've always found that to be super interesting. So, you know, my seventh grade year book, my seventh grade year said I wanted to be a professional athlete, which was crazy. My eighth grade yearbook said I wanted to work at Nike. I'm going to be that. The head of Mar I want to be the head of marketing, at Nike.

So, one hat, one happened, the other one I'm still working on. so yeah, yeah man, that's my background it's happened because of injury and because, you know, bless my mom's heart. It was like, that's, you need to find a, a backup plan and that watching my mom and, Try not to like go and Chris Webber, you know, obviously it's like, it's a weird time for it for everybody, but I think about what Chris Weber said last night. And, and it's weird cause it's, he broke down at the same, the same point because he understands that he understands the impact that seeing people that look like you, how that is, how that influences and how, what you want to do.

And so I was very fortunate to have my mom, especially in her position who then took her platform and ran the HBCU summer program to then give more kids that look like me and opportunity to pursue, per professions in corporate America. because there are just so limited, as African Americans and to see what we're going through now and everything that's happened through this pandemic.

And again, just a couple of days ago, looking back to see all the stuff that my mom has been a part of and to see what she has said about how difficult it's been for her to be a black woman in corporate America.

Yeah. And we appreciate you sharing that I mean it is You know we're day after, the NBA rightfully decided to speak out and 

the players decided the fire's decided 

Yeah the players 

who decided for the NBA games.

And you know, it is one of those things where Tim and I were texting back and forth last night where we said, you know, these are conversations that aren't happening at the political level because of all the divisiveness it's not happening at. The school and educational level, but it's happening in sports and it sort of reminds you how much the sports world really does catalyze these conversations.

Is that something that you recognize while you were an active player where you were saying that, Hey, we have this real power to affect change or, you know, is it something that you realized after.

No. I mean, I realized that I realized it before it, you know, that's why I started player for the planet. I mean, I grew up in Southern California and I've, you know, I, I do, I mean, our state is on fire again. you know, it's, it's crazy. It's just, it's crazy. This, the state is on fire again, you know, the snowpack gets worse and worse every year.

It's more unpredictable. you know, I've been, I've been sick. I've seen friends get really sick and the ocean from, from, the, just the irresponsibility of the runoff in local beach side communities and developments. I went on field trips to the mountains and I understand, you know, the. You know what we're doing to these natural habitats, like we're still shooting mountain lions that we've been tracking for 20 years and they're just keep falling off because we just feel like this need, that they're, that they don't, that they don't, that they're not part of their, this isn't.

They have no rights, natural ecosystem. That is, that is earth. And when, whenever we feel threatened by what is naturally supposed to do what they're supposed to do and do we basically shoot them down. Especially in, in, you know, in Southern Cal, there's not a whole lot of places that have the biodiversity and just the, in such a wide spectrum as, as California.

I understood it at an early age, the importance of it. And so, you know, when I got to pro ball, especially when I, when I started this and it just started out as a simple pressing query, to, I just wanted to just do one thing and I just wanted to cut down on plastic. That was it.

And I sent in a precedent, Korea. I saw these bottles and I was like, that's, I can make a statement with that, that bottle that says, I am not plastic. If I can get 50 guys to use that as a team, as a collective unit to make a statement. People will listen. And that's exactly what happened. The next thing I knew espn.com and mlb.com picked up the story.

I got called up a month and a half later. And again, it was on the computer, probably reading something from Thomas Friedman and said the hell are you doing on your computer? You're going to the big leagues. And. You know, then my first home stairs, I get there and there's signs all over the stadium with the recycling symbol.

And that's when I understand, that's when I understood that I now have the power to understand it, to listen to those fans, like what their concerns are. I know that they're afraid, like, you know, the planet is in peril. What can I do better? And to take my knowledge and then to share, and then to take athletes that understand with me where our plan is going, if we don't make a change, how impactful that can be.

And that's how I started playing for 

Whether it be preserving the planet or a lot of what's being brought to light with social justice Both of those require a daily effort in lift and call to action. But they're both things that are. they're forever, right? Like th that they take such great impact. And yet it's the little impacts every day that can help make change.

How do you keep the hope and on a daily basis with the things that you're doing for the planet, when you see things like what's going on in California right now, with, with the fires or just every day, there's another tragedy for our planet. And that, and that's the parallel I'm trying to bring with, you know, obviously the tragedies that are happening from a social justice standpoint too, and it's really easy to lose hope.

How do you, how do you keep the faith?

It's really difficult, you know? It's really tough. I feel like I only, I it's honestly, to the point where you remember the matrix when I forget the name of the character, but when he was basically trying to get out of the matrix and he's sitting there and he's like, you know, I just ignorance is bliss.

And he takes a sip of his wine is like, sometimes you're just better off not knowing. And the more that I've dialed in and the more research I've done, like reading through the climate report was like one of the most depressing things I've ever done going to world ocean's week and sitting through a two hour.

Documentary on what's happening to the albatross and how just basically being killed off by plastic and then hearing the world leaders in these agricultural set sectors. Talk about how, what the state of the oceans and what the state of their fishing markets looks like. Seeing the detention and the despair in the, in the body language and people at the UN.

And this isn't like a backyard, you know, neighborhood, you know, environmental watch group. These are, these are the brightest minds in the world and they're cringing in their seats.

So it's, so it's difficult to hold your shit together. When, you know, you have, you know, you have kids and your friends have kids and, you know, you know, like the world is going to be completely different. They're not gonna have what we have.

That's the most disheartening part, just not only just, you know, having a biracial daughter, not understanding just that part of it. But understanding that a lot of these animals that you love, that you see on TV, aren't going to 

Yeah 

fucking tough conversations to have with little kids should shouldn't. We shouldn't have to have to have to have them.

You know, one of the things I was talking to Jay about last night, When we had this conversation around sport as a vehicle to teach and to bring awareness, Pete, when, when there's nowhere else to turn for awareness from our politicians, not going to call them leaders because our leaders are athletes.  right now, and my four year old has gotten just so into these playoffs, you know, he's four and like, I'm, I'm a big basketball fan.

So I'm like, But I'm also, I want to be cognizant, like, he's four. I don't want him to feel pressure from me to be like this huge sports fan, whatever it's like, I want it, you to enjoy it Obviously I love it that he loves it And yesterday he kept asking me he's wearing his Russell Westbrook shirt 

Where are they Yeah 

why why aren't they playing daddy Cause we had watched the games every day before that And I kept telling him like Hey I want to wait until your younger sister goes to bed I had a really hard conversation with him that I know he didn't understand 95% of what I was saying especially because his attention was but it gave me the to start having And. Look, I'm white. I'm privileged. I grew up, in a very loving household, but we didn't really have these kinds of conversations. I never really learned in school, like the history of our, our country just to be able to start having that four year old and in a context of being like well why isn't the basketball being played I'm not thankful for what's going on but I'm thankful for the leaders we have in sport And so I want to bring this back to players for the planet what you've done Clearly you, like you said, you got to the you saw the recycled signs on these realize like I've got this platform and you played with some huge household name guys, which you've now brought into the fold Jane are also saying like, you're one of the first athletes we've had, we've done over 25 episodes now where,  your ex you've actually like. Hey, let me Let me bring in other guys to go do tell us, a little bit about that.

Help us understand, you know, how you're able to get the attention of teammates, what those conversations were like.  know you're both had the shared the field but also like you found an opportunity even though you were five teams in 

right. So it's, it's weird. And we're going to, you know, I know this is like a business podcast and if you're going to, if we're going to put in like a, like a context of strategy, it's like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna advance your product either vertically or maybe horizontally with different product offerings, that's kind of how I approach it and it's in it, but it's in an, it happened that way in an unfortunate manner.

You know, what I'm saying is because you know, what ends up happening is there's so many different buckets. What's what's happening around the globe. Like. Obviously plastic is taking over is taking over some of these countries. Like you've seen what's happened in Dominik. Can you see what's happening in the Maldives?

And from a climate standpoint, like the Maldives is literally drowning. You see that every day, you know, every couple weeks, especially in the winter, as you know, the rainy season moves into Italy and, you know, the floods keep rising. and you see with like, you know, you see what the national disasters, but, you know, and it's like, we're not going to get into climate denial.

But the fact of the matter is like, we have tangible issues that are happening. Like species are disappearing at an extraordinary rate. deforestation is happening. Yeah. And an extraordinary rate, which means habitats loss. And again, go back to like all these animals that these kids love. It's like, okay, well, yeah, they live in Brazil, but they're being killed off at an alarming rate.

The elephants there's only 30,000 left on the planet. So, what ended up happening is like, it was just basically like 2008, 2009, like the word green was just a buzz word. It was just something cool to do and made you feel good. Just kind of like putting your, you know, your black square on your Instagram.

I'm down with a, cause not really about that life, but I, you know, I understand where everybody's going with it. So it was like, okay. My first is we use a ton of plastic. That's what I want to attack because of sports. I see this every day. I literally is that by trashcan every day, and I've watched thousands of bottles get thrown in per week.

We can solve this by right right now, but cutting down on our plastic plastic by using a reusable water bottle. Great nest. E-waste is it. Tr is the fastest growing waste stream on the planet right now, especially as innovation, the more devices are being created. The faster new versions come out. The faster we get rid of old ones.

The landfills are filling up again at an alarming rate, like so much where countries are literally like, we're not taking, you're not taking your crap anymore. China's not taking our plastic anymore. They're not taking trash. We're not taking you waste or simply just like dumping, dumping it, you know, on the JG river.

And you know, it's having tremendous, environmental consequences. So we started this, so we kind of fell into the waste program. and we did, we did eight of those. And the feeling that I got, it was just such a tremendous, like when you connect to the community and you can get out with these fans and see the look on their face when they come and drop off a TV that they've had in the, in the basement for like 15 years.

And they're, they're all computer, they're all computer screen DVD players to see the look on her face because they simply don't know what to do to offer them a solution. Knowing that it's going to save the planet that it's not going to end up in your backyard being dumped illegally. You know what I'm saying?

So for that, it's like, I loved it. I love this. I love this. And they do too. So I was like, that's another product that we want to offer is doing these e-waste events and then kind of branching that out. And then, you know, this summer we were supposed to do Pittsburgh. We're supposed to do with the Carolina Panthers, Milwaukee brewers, Seattle Mariners, Kansas city Royals, and the San Diego Padres with the seven events that we did from 2009 to 2017, we recycled them million and a half pounds.

It was diverted. From landfills. And we were hoping to do that all in one summer things a lot COVID but, electronic waste and then having Brent come on board was a, Hugh was a huge thing. Not only because I, we got to go to the Dominican and get him, you know, get Rob Robinson, kennel and Nelson Cruz through the biggest names to understand.

For them to participate and bring attention to the process. And then the fallout that ended up happening is when you talk to me this other, guy's like in an Edwin Encarnacion and they understand that there's a problem. And they just they've been asking themselves like how they can help and what they can do and what the solution is makes you want to just keep going.

And that's been an awesome revelation. what's happened with having Nelson and Robbie on board and having a med Rosario and having, you know, these dozen or so guys that have come out for all these cleanups is to bring attention to ocean plastic, and then the waste. And then he cology and teaching young kids about the importance of trees and why we can go out and take, you know, an hour of a day to go plant two trees.

You know what the ROI as human beings. You know is for, for trees. Like they, they reduce temperatures. They, you know, they filter out particulates, they absorb carbon emissions, especially in high, you know, high emission places like New York, like LA, they're so important. So, you know, that's another one.

And then it's just like, you know, it's the unfortunate matter that this generation has, you know, gone from this, this, This buzz word of being green to where these kids now are coming out of college after studying environmental science. And they know, and just to see just within the last five years, the alarms that are going off, it was like, I need to commit to this.

And then to reach out to, you know, put her through the plan to be like, Hey, how can I help? Like, I've, I'm passionate about this. I'm passionate about sustainable building. I'm so passionate about sustainable design. I'm passionate about food waste and being a vegan and reducing my. Carbon footprint. that is what the biggest thing I've noticed and everybody has their own concern and that's how we've been able to branch out and do these different things.

And so then it was when we redid the site, it was like we have enough guys to have really genuine interests in sustainable and sustainable gardening, inorganic, you know, be, you know, going vegan and growing their own vegetables. The importance of composting. The, the importance of, urban ecology and re revamping urban spaces into natural living spaces.

the value that they have on inner city community is when you put in this natural investment into these communities, how it grows, not only because obviously environmental education is in, you know, is, you know, is, you know, is. Is all intersectional with, you know, environmental justice. it all ties into each other because these are the most, these marginalized communities are the ones that are going to be at most risk with climate change.

And with some of these, you know, these issues that we're having with carbon emissions and coal pepper, coal power, coal plants, you know, electric plants, you know, oil refineries, a lot of these marginalized communities are all surrounding these places. So the more people we can reach out to these different communities through these different initiatives, the better off in the morning, the more educated that these people will be able to stand up for themselves.

When these companies come in and offer them cheap jobs at these, you know, recycling plants and go through and, you know, it's like, go shove it up your ass. So, so that's been great and, you know, ocean conversation. So having these different buckets that we can really start to push the conversation, you know, that are attached to some, you know, really important figures in the sporting community.

And we're just looking forward to. You know how many these guys really speak up, but to, to really, you know, just, you know, grab it, these different guys that, you know, that are, are, are on their teams. And that can, that they can then bring in just as I did with Nelson and Robbie and be like, listen, and then ha, and then bringing down.

you know, like Shane green and bringing down, Brent suitor to the Dominican and like watching the look on their faces when they see this, this issue firsthand close and personal. And I just something that I'll never forget it. I just, I will never forget the look on it. Brent's face when he saw the voice off plan wants, you know, it's the, for the first time in the foot foot tall plastic that was, you know, washing up.

And so that's what we're, that's what we're trying to create. We want to extend the voice to players, some particular areas that they're passionate about, and then having players for the plan to support that. Cause in any

way shape or form 

I like that idea that that you addressed that there are so many different aspects to this fight and there are so many different Channels you know all the different sort of aspects you covered around just plastics on one end around e-waste around Coalfire and sustainable energy And I feel like sometimes for folks that are that want to get involved in millennials or you know young people that want to get involved environmental justice It's such a big and sometimes you think, okay, this has to be handled on a governmental level. What can I, as an individual do? So, so, so help us understand that, like, what are those misconceptions that the

average person 

has about what they can 

that's the, the single biggest misconception. And I lit, I literally just wrote this in something. Oh, I was, you know, we're putting together. Fingers crossed. you know, just talking with Eric decider at Nike who runs a sustainability program and we've done a, a debt for a zero waste field, that we pitched to MLB.

It would be completely, completely, you know, zero waste. I mean, like. No water use no natural you resources be turf. that basically made of recycled materials. The dugouts would be, you know, old shipping containers. Every participant in the little league gets reusable water bottle. There's a plastic free, area.

there'll be, accessible water, refillable stations, you know, involved solar panels to take the grid, but then to extend outside that particular playing space into the local community to take the burden. Off of those. So that's what we're talking about is like reinventing and innovating safe spaces in these inner city communities, but also promoting environmental responsibility as an educational center.

Totally forgot where I was going. But in this deck I was like to address problem. is that to address the question? Why, why, what can I do? Like what can we do person do? And. Every person, they have the right. Cause it's a daunting challenge. It really is. It's a daunting challenge. But for every person, every person that you can basically just reach out to and be like, Hey.

This is why you should do this. What you're not gonna, you're not going to get to everybody, but you will get to somebody and that person will then go to that next person. That person will change their behaviors. And if that person can reach out in a sensible manner, you know, it's not like the vegans who like shame you, Oh, you, you eat meat.

Oh my God, you eat ice cream. You monster. It's like, listen, you know, you better move off. Hey. No, I have here's the solution instead of going to the pay, instead of going to the supermarket, like, here there's reusable produce bags here. Here's the link. This is how it works. Oh, awesome. And I just sent this in, and I think that's it.

I literally just sent this to a kid. He reached out and he was like, Hey, I, you know, I recycle, I try to get my friends to do X, Y, and Z. And I just want to know how can I do more in life. It was like one of those moments, it's like, this is how this should happen. This is what you can do better. You know, here's a great company that does reusable produce bags.

So you don't have to use those plastic bags. Get yourself a reusable water bottle, get yourself a Brita water filter. So you're not buying water at the house. you can utilize your use reusable water bottle. you can, you know, bring, you know, have like many solar panels that you can, you can provide, you know, local, localized power to different, you know, certain lamps or windows, side electronics.

So you're not using, so you're not using power. it's small things like that, that can, that can make a tremendous difference. And there are simple solutions. If you're like, Hey, here's a really great company. Hey generation conscious. They don't use plastic. They make amazing body wash. So you never have to purchase, another plastic bottle or another toothpaste, or here's a great toothbrush company that doesn't use plastic and you can simply just send it away and they'll, they'll bring you, you know, they'll send five new ones or whatever, so their solutions and you don't have to be judgy.

But there's enough people in enough companies that get it to where you can, you can make basic suggestions and through that, then you are understanding the cycle of like, Hey, I understand the value in this. Yes, you should try it. Hey, thank you. I really I've reduced my power. My power bill is $30 cheaper and once they understand the results.

In some of the that's how you'd create really change real change. It's when you can offer this in a, in a helpful response and they can experience the benefits of being zero, being zero waste or being environmental as environmentally as well.

You said, you know, even a little bit can make a difference. And you're working with players that are household names, guys that have made tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. And then also guys that maybe were not as familiar with you're working with active players, you're working with retired players.

How do you create. How do you with players for the planet, allow those players to plug in and to what level do you have, like a certain demand of them if they are going to engage? Because yes, like you'd love to have a big name, guy get involved and like, that's great. And I'm sure there's always like a lot of energy at the very beginning.

Of the relationship, but I'm also sure. There's times when big name or, or, or not like guys kind of like us, sorry, man. I, or maybe they don't even say, sorry. Right. Maybe you just don't hear from them again. Like how do you manage that the players being a

key driver 

yeah, we, and it got to the point where, when we revamped the site, when we revamped the whole organization of a player for the plan is like, okay, whoever comes on board, I'm going to let them choose how involved they want to be. And so we have basically our ambassadorship program is now broken into three, three levels, local.

Hey, if I call the Milwaukee brewers, we have an e-waste event. You'll show up. You know, you'll, you'll show up, you'll be there. You'll hang in, you know, hang out. Great. You'll help, you know, take the TVs from, you know, the people that come up that's, you know, we'll keep it there. Then you have. Like national, you know, we're releasing a huge campaign with, you know, with the, the nature Conservancy and that's where you get like the Hunter Pence level.

Who's like, Hey, I partnered with, I'm going to utilize my social channels to promote, you know, whatever they're doing, because I believe in what they're doing. That's how I'm going to get involved. And then you have like our global ambassadors, like a Brent suit, or like a Nelson Cruz. Who's going to come down to the Dominican.

Who's going to come down, you know, Puerto Rico, they're going to travel to. you know, they're going to travel to Florida to go out with you know, for ocean and go actually pick up, you know, go out onto the vessels to see the problem themselves into, you know, help, pull this ocean, you know, out of, you know, straight out of the ocean.

So, so that's who I want in the, the weird thing is, is like glad you asked that question because I never wanted this to be like, Just the names, you know, just like the names or the celebrity attached to it. I never felt comfortable with having these guys involved if they weren't going to be living that lifestyle.

which is why I've always had access to NBA guys, but that life, you know, those guys are not about, it's like it's, their lifestyle is completely, is different. that just didn't suit. I wouldn't be comfortable having them, you know, roll out in a, you know, a G wagon that's using 13, 13 miles to the gallon and they have their running power on a 8,500 8,500 square foot home, you know, using, you know, keeping it at 65 with no, you know, sustainable technology, maybe second.

Yeah, maybe second

Yeah, it's really tough.

Cause you got to live it 

Yeah, you, you ha you have to live it. And, that's been the best part about, with these new kids that have come on board. It's like the Mitchell Kilkenny's from who studied at Texas a and M you know, who's, you know, sustainable agriculture. No Brent who studied environmental science at Harvard, who, you know, he's, you know, he's all about composting and going into these urban communities and in making, you know, making tree deposits, making urban gardens to, to, to accessibility, to fresh fruits and vegetables for these inner city communities.

It's those are the guys that, that, that we want. It's the Blake Trey hands who have an enormous garden, in the back. And they're basically like living off the land, showing the benefits of, you know, of, of what that, what that work, the work that goes into that, and the rewards that you get from, you know, understanding how important composting and in living that lifestyle is so.

in a in a similar vein there's similar but there's a there's a lot of organizations That are focused on protecting environment but you're also a competitor by profession from your baseball days Like us a little bit about that dynamic.

 is everyone trying to be collaborative Cause it's the same cause or are there times where like know maybe those folks are that that group isn't really on the same page as us that's okay Like we'll do our thing like know, is there anything to any of

We've had, yeah, we've had those, we've had those conversations and, It's strange if again, like it all ties back there, just, you know, that's why we say everything is intersectional. You know, environmental justice is, you know, environmental justice is, you know, is, is social justice almost when, you know, because issues that, you know, black people are having in these communities, they're also at risk of these environmental issues as well.

So it's like, I just talked about what the player's Alliance is doing. you know, w in wake of everything that's happening and how are we addressing this issue? and then you have, you know, like the player's coalition that is ultimately doing the same thing, but, you know, that's an Kwan Bolden, and Chris Archer and other athletes.

And then you have the black, the 150 black athletes, like we're doing the same thing. But why are we doing under the same banner? Because, you know, they're like, okay, voter suppression, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, okay. So it's like that weird thing. It's like, why aren't we mending? But you should be with us, but you shouldn't it's.

We are. and it's kind of the same thing. You know, we have one of these experiences with a group called, Eco athletes. And it's like, okay, we know all the same guys. We know all we've entered. You've interviewed the same guys that are, are my guys. And my guys were, you know, we were trying to get your guys to tie in, to play under one banner.

Why can't we be just under one banner? It's like, it's weird when it gets to that. It's like, everybody wants to fight the same problem, but everybody wants to individual clout knowing that they created. This and it's like, okay, what's the mess? Well, we're a lobbying group. We want to educate and use our platform to help, you know, educate and help them speak on climate change and this and that.

So. Okay, great. You already know what we're doing. So why not just combine this into, you know, and get the athletes that you've already talked to from hockey, from baseball, from, you know, rowing, skiing, winter sports, and just all just go under one banner. So.

Where do you where do brands play into that we've seen this new wave especially brands that are all talking about towards zero waste or you know talking about Oh we're sustainable becomes the big word Like what does that actually mean Nobody really knows but it's No they're billing themselves as How much of this is actually moving the conversation in the right direction and how much of it is like greenwashing for branding And did they reach out to you to sort of partner and try to do 

Yeah, I think there, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of greenwashing. but when you come down to it, you know, it's like, we've been talking. in basically kind of research and what Nike is doing, and they're always getting called out for something, but you know how it is. It's like when you're that big, you're always going to be in the bowl, in the bullseye.

You're always going to be in the crosshairs of somebody. same with Amazon, you know, and when you can, you're gonna accuse Amazon and just Greenwell. Okay, cool. Like this isn't really our project, but we have so much money that naming rights to climate pledge arena. Isn't whatever. Cool. We'll take. We'll take that as part of our climate pledge.

But, you know, the fact of the matter is they've used more natural resources. Then anybody Lynn, like anybody on the planet with the amount of fossil fuels that they have, the sheer volume of transmissions and deliveries, the impact that they have on the environment is insane. And so I know they've made a commitment to, you know, 1500 of the Caribbean vehicles or the electric vehicles in the cave.

That's great. but I don't think we truly understand the size in the sod, the sheer size of that operation. so it's important to understand. you know, how these brands work and what they're, you know, and it's whether it's like, okay, we're going to shift through, you know, we're going to offset. And just, as you said, we got to the, you know, the carbon offset, Hey, we're doing this program.

Okay. And we're then offsetting all of our carbon for every shipment. We're gonna donate a portion to. you know, to this particular, group, that's going to plant trees and it's going to bend reabsorb, our, our carbon footprint, you know, we use our sh our, our materials made of sustainable 100%, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay. Prove it. And this is, it's all about transparency. And this is, you know, this is still a result that it's going to do is all a. A great, you know, fallout from, you know, the whole Enron thing is like, this is a whole new thing on corporate transparency and kind of opening up to see exactly what you, if you are living up to your, you know, your claims and so.

and that's just going to get more, become more apparent as we move forward, especially in this age of, of, of climate of climate peril, that when you say something and you're going to have a, a large scale kind of environmental action that that's going to be tracked, and it's going to be looked into by somebody, whether it's the NRDC or whether it's a nature Conservancy or whether, you know, there are.

In fact, agencies that do look into, especially on the manufacturing, the, you know, whether it's clothing or retail or consumer industry to kind of really evaluate and hold these companies accountable that they are living up to their, to their claims. And I think that's where we're going. If not, where we might already be there.

so I know one of our, one of our partners, pistol Lake, yeah. Pistol Lake, who did our shirts and. you know, 11, 11 bottles to see that manufacturing process and literally to see the 11 bottles picking up the 11 bottles and then being able to send that back, knowing that, that I know exactly what that process is, and it goes here.

It's made into yarn here. It's made into here. This is done. We do it at a zero waste facility. They uses 40% less water because we have solar plants. Like that makes me feel good. and it's important to be transparent about that, you know, to show that process. Cause not only is it like actually really interesting if you're a super nerd, but it makes the consumer feel, feel, feel a lot better.

And in when you make customers feel good about those claims that, that consumer, I like that consumer loyalty to that brand rises exponentially. And you also increase your brand equity, you know, tenfold,

Yeah. And people, I think, especially in today where there is so much information out there, I think it's not just about folks I think are a lot more skeptical when brands make claims I think we used to be at least Showing up I remember you would see somebody say something I think now the amount of literature that's out there and necessary to convince somebody that you are doing what you say you're doing is so important And I think you know it's the right 

Yeah, absolutely. Like if you were, you know, if you were to look at what Nike is doing with their zero waste, I mean, they're moved to zero it's fat. It's fascinating. You know, and, and measuring that like, when they come out and they do that whole announcing, like, okay, we're going to all gonna get together, Microsoft, Nike, you know, PNG, this is what we're going to do.

Okay. Show us. And then having that literature, just like you said, available, and be like, okay, we're playing on this particular, this alpha NXT shoe has made a 50% recycled joke. Okay. Prove it well, when they started the Flyknit shoe, it does use 60% less because they could basically net the shoe to, you know, to that flips demand without the excess material, that excess materials.

Now then rewoven into another shoe. And like, you know, we have this Nike grind program that rubber has now moved into. So you're seeing like, Oh, Wow. That's really dope. I actually, that, yeah, and it's really dope. You can see it in how it's in, how it's made. It's no different than what SC Johnson is doing with the brewers and taking those cups, utilizing those cups into scrubbing bubbles, but also using the ocean plastic, the ocean certified plastic that you can literally see in a tangible handheld.

Result is that you can see the specs of old recycled plastic that may, may be red and blue from other plastic container. So that it's really exciting. And that you'll notice that same, that same characteristic in a lot of the Nike move to zero products. It's like, wait, why do I get blue, green? And like, that was definitely from some other shoe.

Chris, is that an initiative that you with players for the planet have been a part of, or it's just something you're aware of given to 

really trying. Yeah, we're trying to, and I think it's part of the, is getting to is really making innovative, but innovative platform for how we build youth fields. But also just like it's important to when you, when you have these platforms, it's innovation comes from stepping outside the box and being able to reapply certain technology, certain technologies and certain, Manufacturing, opponents and being able to show like the variants and how they can be applied to them.

So if you were to have parlay what they did with the, with the field, I'm in Miami, a full football field made of approximately 1.8 million plastic bottles. Like that's a tremendous fee. Like they are set the bar to show you what's possible. From sport in the environment and closing the loop on waste. And so taking that in basically, you know, and going to see how can we bake a chicken being shipped field that is made of re recycled in closing the loop on waste to where we can then.

You know, find these innovative ways to create little aspects like that, like using the Nike grind program to provide the turf, the recycling. So policy that they've been using for, the NBA jerseys for the last 10 years and doing the batting cage nets out of that. And then the, how can we educate the kids that are wearing that?

Like they're literally wearing their, you know, they might be wearing their plastic bottles. through this move to zero program, just like there may be moving, you know, wearing their plastic bottles or the stadiums plastic waste, that has now been fat, you know, sewn in factored into the jerseys that are being worn on the field like that is ultimately closing the waste and that's innovation from, you know, from waste to fan to now expressing and representing that on the field, that entire philosophy of, of waste reduction.

And that's what we wanted. That's what we want to do

that's, what's so exciting. And so promising about the things you're working on is not only are like these new solutions being created that make use of all this waste, but it's actually in a lot of cases, it can be an even better solution. And that's when. You make the choice for the consumer easy, right?

Cause you're like, Oh, it's an added benefit. know it's better than planet So it's really exciting to see where technology's going and how groups like yours are trying to bring awareness to this We could I think stay with you all day but we don't want to take up too much more of your time So we'll switch gears a little bit We just have a few questions that we always like to wrap on One of the things That we always like to ask our guests what's a lesson from your playing career that has really helped you the most off the field As you've now transitioned into what you're 

I think it's just, it's having a plan. Like every day, you're going to have a plan. Like you're literally going to have a game plan, especially baseball. You play, you know, 190 games, you know, with spring training, maybe playoffs, but every day you're going to get up and you're going to think yourself, okay, what did I do wrong yesterday?

What steps do I need to take to get better at that particular part of my game or, or whatever it is. And then look going into the game is understanding. What, what to expect in that particular day, what to expect in that particular? So it's no different, like, to be well versed as the same as getting up in and researching, you know, what's happening in, you know, with plastic what's happening, what are the, you know, affordable technologies that can then be tied into some of our initiatives?

Like it's important to always stay educated just as I would go in. And I would, the first thing I do when I get to the field is. Bring up the pitcher. That's throwing that night to bring up the bullpen, to see what they're throwing, how they're pitching, and then to basically sit there in my locker and go through our information packet.

So I'm well prepared and I'm educated and I'm knowledgeable about what's going to be happening, and then making the adjustments accordingly. So I think that's the biggest thing is like, what, what is your preparation for that day? And the other thing is like, how great do you want to be? How great do you want to be? You know, how good do you want to be? What else can you get better at today? Like how much better? And it's funny because like that night, that Nike commercial that just came out, it's just like, it's so simple, but it's so hard for people to understand, like, just be better. Like, what did I do in admitting your faults, knowing your weaknesses and asking yourself, how can I get better every single day?

Like the first day, first thing you roll out, like how, what aspect of my life can I get better at? And I think that's what it is. It's like, what, what every season? What can I get better at? Okay. How willing, how hard are you willing to work to, and to do that? Like what the, what the effort level is. And I think that's.

What sports taught me, especially baseball, because there's no sport that beats you up mentally more than

baseball 

There's no sport There's no sport There's no sport on this planet that you're going to be a holiday. Even if you fail 70% of the time. You are going to be at your, any lead you're an elite athlete or an elite player.

If you, you know, you fail 70% of the time, you're going to be in the hall of fame, just by failing 

those are venture capital numbers 

right. Seven out of 10 times, you're going to fail and that makes you a leader. So getting over failure and understanding those adjustments that you have to make. Not just at like game to game, not just pitch at bat to at bat, but it's the truly great ones make it pitch to pitch.

And that means communicating with your employees because not everybody's going to be different. That's how you learn through management skills is understanding the different personalities, what conditions they work best in how to, how to speak with certain individuals. And that's how you build a team.

It's not just being an on the field. I don't think people understand that. Is, it's not just being a team is not just being on the field and just about performance, but how you approach different teammates from different backgrounds, how they react emotional. Like I know he's, he's wired already. I know he plays, I don't need to get on him.

I know he holds himself accountable that I don't need to call him out. In, you know, in person in front of everybody. Cause I know that's not how he responds, but that person, particular guy do know if I take him aside and I put an arm around him, but like, listen, you've got to do better. And that guy under that is so important to him that increases his performance in his and his livelihood by tenfold.

And that's the interesting thing about understanding that from how to train it for these valuable lessons learned in sports in the business.

Yeah Love that aspect of it Love the internet you know, the, the interpersonal aspect of it. And we've also just really enjoyed being able to. Educate ourselves today on all the things that you're doing. So where I want to close is how can our listeners get involved with players for the planet and do their part, and maybe what are some resources that you would recommend they get, educated on and reach 

Yeah. I mean, first off, go visit us@playersfortheplanet.org, you know, players for the planet.org. you know, we just put up our new, our new campaign with, SC Johnson, the Milwaukee brewers, and we're really excited about that. And then donating the $2,000 for the save the oceans program for every sale that the brewers get this year.

but you know, that's the best thing is like learning like. Looking at that program and understanding what the impact of your plastic use is, and not being, you know, not understanding where it goes, the importance of recycling and the importance of just reducing your footprint, because, you know, I don't approach it as out of sight, out of mind, take the extra minute to be conscious of like, Where does this go?

You know, what was the process of making this? Like, was this, you know, how much what's the resources that went into making this? And can I find another alternative? That's more environmentally responsible that can ultimately do the same thing. and I think there's just so many things and I walked to the, you know, can I walk here?

Can I bike here? Do I really have to take the car, you know, do I have to take the car to this certain place? So, you know, visit, you know, visit player for the planet. but on Twitter, Instagram, we just put up a really cool thing on, on e-waste. So getting guys on and getting people to understand the impact of when they throw out there, you know, especially if they have old electronics lying around, go seek out, East Seward's a recycling thing.

Take your old TV, take your old cell phones. Your old DVD players has nobody uses those anymore. Cause everything is streaming. like I just saw cable box. I just saw cable box line lying out by the trash can the other other day because they know they can't just throw it in regular trash, but it's those types of things like go find your neck, your vocal e-waste cause that's it's a, it's a huge problem right now.

As you guys know, it's everything. There's always a new gadget that's coming out and there's always a new gadget. That's ending up in a waste bin in a trashcan. You know, you see the T at the box TVs and flat screens. It's sitting out on the, on the curb, like people using people, using those stimulus checks to buy new TVs and it was throw them out on the lawn.

that's right.

    Yeah, guys, I appreciate

it. yeah, let's do it

again soon,

but thank you for having me on this was, this was awesome 

 

love it or hate it. It's time for another partner rundown Jay it's become clear recently that sport is a powerful way to learn and educate. Why do you think that's the case?

Well, Tim this week and last week, more than most, I think we recognize that the power that sports has to shape our public discourse. Of course. And I think one of the biggest reasons for that is that it's one of the last few places that people of different backgrounds still congregate to watch a shared experience.

Thanks to digital media, social media. We can go and seek out the narratives that we want to seek out. We can go out and seek out the news that we want to seek out, but when we get together and we watch sports, It's a shared thing and athletes, I think themselves recognize the power that they have to shape that narrative and shape that conversation.

So it look one dating back to Muhammad Ali, talking about racial jokes, issues to Colin Kaepernick, bringing up issues of police brutality to now players that are speaking out when they walked out of the NBA games last week, it is important for us to recognize that these players are harnessing their power and they are saying.

This is our experience. And we're going to talk about it with you here today.

Yeah. And look, I don't think you can talk about sport as a platform without acknowledging the fact that the NBA is leading this. And the reason the MBA's leading this is because the majority of their players are black. And so they've really been forced into this situation.

This has been forced upon them. Largely because just from a human level, it's something they've faced their entire lives. But also because people are looking to them, people are looking for leaders right now. And unfortunately there's just not a lot of places for that, but I'm really thankful that we have the leadership in the NBA and in these other leagues that we do have to tap into the minds of people who may not see things.

Equally right. Or see things from a justice standpoint. And so to be able to get the perspective of these players and understand that they're saying, Hey, without these jerseys on, and without people knowing my face, I'm facing this stuff every single day, and that's really powerful. And that's the power of sport.

Yeah, very much so. And we see that athletes have these immense platforms to speak out on public interest issues, but how can charity and advocacy organizations get the most out of their athlete or celebrity partner?

Yeah, this is a tricky one because I think as it relates to charity it's for any, any human, it's easy to get excited about these things and want to help and figure out a way to participate. And for athletes, especially, they've got a lot of. Things that are demanding of their time first and foremost, their craft, but then also media availability, people around them.

So it's, it's tricky the way we talked to Chris Dickerson about this, and he talked about really just being an open platform to allow athletes, to participate in whatever level that they could. And so if that's a big name athlete who maybe doesn't have as much time, how can we use his platform as a lever to promote.

The climate change initiatives that we're going after. So I think you got to look at it on an athlete by athlete basis and kind of take what you can get. And then also try to put in place ways that they could maybe be more accountable to the things that they've committed to early on.

Yeah. And one of the things that we talk about on the show a lot, Tim, is that athletes are becoming bigger brands than the teams and brands that they play for and represent. And that's such a powerful thing because I mean, think about when cliff, April came on the show and he talked about how bringing a super bowl to Seattle.

It means that, you know, the city of Seattle, the people of Seattle show up whenever he does a philanthropy event and they show out for him and they donate and they care about the causes that he cares about. And so if you are a charity, your brand, and look when Matt Stover came on, he talked about the hundreds of athlete driven philanthropies and charities that are trying to do really good work.

I think as a charity or brand, what you can realize is that matchmaking aspect is so important is really spending the time upfront and just saying, I don't want just the biggest name in my city that doesn't necessarily always bring me the best value in terms of a partnership, but finding somebody who I know really cares about this topic is going to be really engaged.

Spending that time upfront is actually going to make for a better relationship and hopefully a better outcome for your philanthropy in the future.

So you brought up in our show with Chris Dickerson, the role brands play as it comes to sustainability. Do you think what brands are doing is enough?

Tim. It's hard not to feel cynical when you see some of these brands and they greenwash themselves effectively by putting these words out like ecofriendly and sustainable. And the problem is these words don't necessarily have any sort of legal definition. So what you call sustainable, I might say, is something different, or I might have a higher threshold of expectation for what makes something sustainable.

And you can think about, you know, The number of large brands, whether it's a PNG or an Amazon or any of these folks that are committing millions of dollars towards sustainability, and then applying it to something like naming rights. And you're like, okay, well, how is that actually helping the environment and helping the cause that you're talking about?

So, so no, I think there are folks that are doing really good work, but on the whole, I think we're still in the phase today where it's a lot more greenwashing than not.

Yeah. I mean, I think you bring up a good point that these companies could be doing more, but I'm definitely in the camp as it relates to climate change that. Any progress is positive progress. You have to think about the history of where these companies, especially CPGs are coming from. And they've always tried to put the purchase interests of their customers first.

And so for a lot of reasons, that means convenience comes first. And so what's convenient. Single use plastics convenient, whether it's for your soap or your shampoo, or going to the convenience store and picking up a soda and then being able to recycle the bottle. So I actually think the onus falls way more on the consumer here to demand with their wallets, to demand with their voices, more change from the brands that they know and love.

And if those brands aren't going to make the change, then us as consumers need to seek out alternatives that are going to have a bigger impact on the planet.

I that's a fair point, Tim. And you know, one of the things I know that you've been grappling with this week is around this idea of Nike's Mamba week and their Jersey and shoe release. So tell me, was that a touching tribute or more of just feeling the hype machine?

Well, let's start off by acknowledging that this started with all of the best intentions. And the relationship between Coby and Nike is a deep, deep rooted relationship. If any brand was positioned well to do a tribute to him and everything he stood for, it was Nike. And in a lot of ways, they did an excellent job with the content they put out there, the million dollar donation that they made to his foundation.

However, what really struck me in a lot of customers that was so frustrating is the fact that they made this a limited release. So here you had thousands, if not millions of fans. That we're wanting to participate in Kobe's legacy by literally purchasing, spending hundreds of dollars on Nike product. And they didn't even get that opportunity.

So I know Nike has gotta be thinking about this. I really hope that in the future, when they do this kind of thing, they're going to make it possible for everyone to participate because it's a really sensitive and personal issue for a lot of customers.

This is not the first time that we've seen brands sort of step in it when they are trying to get involved in a or, or a large cause. I mean, I'm just thinking back to my NFL days where October is, you know, pink Jersey month and November is cammo Jersey month. And you sort of realize that like these organizations that, you know, you're, you're branding yourself with.

Aren't necessarily always doing as much as you would hope for the constituency that they claim to represent. And it's, it's sort of this whole thing around like the commercialization of every aspect of sports and brands play a big part in that look understand that there is monetization to be had here understand that the money that they make does ultimately go back to the players and does ultimately go back to the teams.

But. For consumers, it can feel really cynical when you take something that is as touching as a great ad, a beautiful tribute. I mean, Kobe was a part of their family for so many years. And so in a way it does feel like a really beautiful tribute to a family member, but then you overshadow it and you do something that really cheapens that by creating a limited height fuel drop, and it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth at the end of the day.

well, Jay, I always appreciate your perspective, especially when you're able to shine a light on some of your own experiences, like what it was like for you. When you worked at the NFL, I enjoyed this partner rundown and I'll see you next week.

good. 

So that's it for this week's episode, the game plan with Jacob poor and Tim cot.

Thank you so much for listening. We do have a few shout outs before you go. Thank you to our guest, mr. Chris Dickerson of players for the planet for sharing his time, energy and perspective. If you liked what Chris had to say, please make sure to follow him and players for the planet across social media.

We also want to thank our friend David Simmons, who helped make this interview possible by connecting us to Chris and last but not least special. Thanks to our editor will Richardson who as always did a great job. Getting this podcast ready for your ears. If you made it this far, you must really like the show.

We'd love it. If you could follow us on Twitter at the game plan show and leave us a five star review on iTunes. We'll see you next week on the game plan.