July 15, 2020

Pat Connaughton — Building Foundations for a Real Estate Development Career after the NBA

Pat Connaughton — Building Foundations for a Real Estate Development Career after the NBA

Pat Connaughton, Small Forward for the NBA-leading Milwaukee Bucks, joins Tim and Jay on The Game Plan live from a job site(!!) in Milwaukee as he prepares for the NBA to restart at the end of this month.

In this episode, we explore Pat's foray into real estate development, and how he is turning heads around the NBA not just for his explosive vertical on the court, but also the path to wealth he is building outside the game.

Pat goes deep on the real estate investment and development expertise he has gained over the years; a passion he first found as a kid growing up outside of Boston where he joined his dad on various job sites.

We uncover how Pat has leveraged his platform as an NBA athlete and Notre Dame alum to unlock opportunities not otherwise available to the general public.

We also touch on the NBA restart and what our guest has been doing to stay in game shape throughout the global pandemic.

Listeners will find it interesting how Pat, a two-sport athlete in college, ultimately decided to pursue a career in the NBA versus trying his hand at baseball, where he was drafted in the 4th round of the 2014 MLB draft as a pitcher.

Make sure to follow Pat Connaughton on Twitter and Instagram to keep up with his latest efforts.

Listeners can also check out his feature in The New York Times from earlier this year.

Special thanks to Friend of the Pod, JJ Redick, for making the introduction to Pat, as well as to our producer Will Richardson who edited this episode.

Follow co-hosts Jay Kapoor (@JayKapoorNYC) and Tim Katt (@Tim_Katt) for all things sports, media, tech, and venture capital.

Follow The Game Plan on Twitter (@thegameplanshow) and Instagram (@gameplanshow) for show news and updates, to recommend guests, and for bonus content!


Transcript

*Please excuse any and all typos, errors and mistakes in the following transcript as an automated service is used to generate this text*

When you walk into a Rolex store in a sweatsuit, and someone looks at you with a face, like, what are you doing in here? But then all of a sudden they figure out who you are and they understand that you can actually purchase some of the stuff in the store.

And all of a sudden, like they're doing anything that you want to try and get the sale done. It's very similar in real estate. Like when I'm talking to somebody who owns a building who thinks. Oh, this is an NBA guy. He's got deep pockets. Like, let me see what I can get out of them. And all of a sudden I'm talking to him about the zoning, the height restrictions, the things that go into the building that he owns, why it's worth X, what the market rate rentals are in that area.

The development cost that it's going to take in order for me to get those market rate rentals anyway, what the problems are with the structure of the building, things of that nature. All of a sudden they're like, Oh shit. Like I gotta, I gotta, I gotta change my tune a little bit. And I got to actually know what I'm talking about or I'm going to look somewhat foolish.

What's up guys. It's Pat Connaughton for the Milwaukee bucks and owner slash president of three leaf development, a real estate development firm that I started. This is the game plan.

 With the NBA season about to resume today, we welcome a key member of the first place, Milwaukee bucks, five-year NBA veteran, and soon to be real estate mogul, Pat Connaughton Pat, welcome to the game plan.

Yeah, appreciate you guys have me on.

So it's a really interesting time in the NBA going from the hiatus. And now it looks like there's going to be some basketball. you know, what have you been up to the last couple of months? How you've been staying active with with basketball, and then also, how else have you been using your time?

Yeah. You know, I think the weirdest part about it was for a while there, we didn't have access to a gym. So like actually playing basketball, like with a basketball in your hand, shooting dribbling while I was dribbling around my apartment. But for the most part. You don't have access to who, you know, I didn't, I live in an apartment, so I don't have a hoop, you know, in my driveway or anything.

And, they shut down the facilities and obviously they didn't let us go to public facilities and most of them were closed anyway. So, For me, it was about finding ways to stay in shape physically. trying to make sure I kept the ball in my hands, dribbling around my apartment, but there's only so many chairs I can cross up.

And there's only, you know, I got my best friend, his fiance who live with me and they're not really NBA caliber defenders. So, know, I had to, try to get a little creative with that, but, you know, I was outside, when the days are nice in Milwaukee running Hills, I had to wait best kind of back to the things that. Honestly I did before I was able to, you know, really get into like heavy lifting, like sixth, seventh, eighth grade. When I wanted to improve my vertical, when I wanted to be able to dunk, I had a weight best, I ran up Hills. I jumped up and down on ledges, like single leg, double legs. Like I did random stuff like that.

And. That's kind of what I went back to you and push ups, sit ups, you know, the Buck's did a great job. There's just some dumbbells and free weights, some bikes and stuff like that. It's obviously, you know, stay in shape. But for the most part, I was trying to get creative and, and going back to the junior high, high school days where you're outside and just trying to roll with it.

Yeah, I think any of us that watched the horse competition on the outdoor hoops can say that a shooting on an outdoor hoops, not exactly the same feel as maybe the NBA caliber practice facility or used to.

No, it's not, but you know, you can get a little better with it. I remember of the WFA girls that were shooting was an Indian. It looks a little bit cold and windy, and I was like, that's, that's an unfair advantage for whomever she's playing.

Yeah, got to play the wind. So look, we're really excited to talk to you about all the amazing things you're doing off the court. But first we're gonna take it back a little bit. You're an interesting start to your professional sports career because you were two sport athlete and in college you actually got drafted.

You played some class, a ball. Tell us a little bit about how you ultimately decided to go the route of pursuing an NBA career.

 Through college. was fortunate to get drafted after my junior year of college. And baseball played a summer, obviously a pro like you mentioned. And, it  was really eye opening for me, my entire life. Everyone's always said, you know, you're a better baseball player than basketball player.

You will end up playing baseball. And part of it kind of drove me and I do love baseball. So it was nothing against baseball by any means, but, you know, going to Notre Dame and. the stuff I learned at Notre Dame that has helped me in business kind of also allowed me to look at my decision from a business lens.

And for me, I kind of looked at just the nature of the two sports. You if, when I went and played pro ball for that summer, obviously you got rookie ball, you got low way, you got high, you got AA, you got AAA, you got three to five years to get to the bigs. Right. and. No, I saw it.

I definitely could do it. I thought I could've fast tracked it, but say I didn't make it, you know, in three to five years coming out of college, I'm to 27. I didn't make it. Could I have ever gone back to basketball? No, the youth, the athleticism and the things that you need in basketball, in my opinion, deteriorate quicker than what you need as a pitcher in baseball.

So I looked at basketball and I said, Hey, you know, I can give this a shot. if I'm fortunate to get drafted, which I ended up being, you're in the NBA, maybe you played a few G league games. I was fortunate to not have to necessarily do that, but you're in the league, you're in the show, if you will, and you can find out relatively quickly, I mean, a first year contracts, especially for a second round guys, two years. Third year team option after two or three years, you know, if you have a chance. Right. So, I wanted to dedicate, those two to three years to see what I could do in basketball. I didn't want to burn that bridge before I saw it through. And I figured if for some reason I didn't make it, you know, it would be a lot easier to go back to baseball with the athleticism that I've built.

And it's just really about getting my arm back in shape. So. I've been trying to make sure I didn't burn that bridge every ever since. And you know, we're on year five now and finishing it up and hopefully, know, after the bubble, I'll be able to get a few more years on a contract somewhere and, keep it going.

And maybe someday you'll see me in the bigs, but hopefully not until after, you know, 10, 12 JJ S years in.

you'll be a modern day. Rookie of the year

Yeah, exactly.  Exactly.

Yeah. And, and now having been in the league for five years and you played with some amazing teammates, like Damian Lillard, like Yonis, and I know that you're super read into what's happening on the business side of the league, just from being around, whether it's those teammates or other guys.

And watching how they operate off the court. Is there something that you've learned or taken from them about how you want to carry yourself? You know, both off the court now, but then also, you know, one day when you retire.

Yeah, I would say, for them or from them damn Yonis. the biggest thing I've learned from them is just the leadership that they have. they have, kind of similar styles, they're doing a little bit of different ways, but for them, most part they're very lead by example. you know, balls of them are vocal when needed. but they put time, energy effort. They put the work in after hours that nobody sees. And when your best player, and, you know, obviously in, in, in IASIS case, the MVP of the league is doing that. It kind of sets the tone for the rest of the team. And for me, Hey, that's important for my day job basketball, but B when it comes off the court stuff, that's what you want to build in business too.

Like you want leader, you want the president of the company you want, you know, the owner of the company, like myself to be putting time, energy, and effort in, you know, we're on plane rides all the time. we've obviously had time during this quarantine away from basketball and you don't have devoted a lot of those hours and the hours on the planes to.

Looking into the real estate stuff. I do looking into the foundation that I have and making sure that those who helped me with it and those who work for it, you know, see me putting as much if not more time in than them, because it kind of breeds that winning and desire to kind of work for the person next to you type culture.

Yeah. And you know, people can lead in a lot of different ways. And I think those two guys are just great examples of just leading with action. Right? You don't have to be the most vocal leader, although both of them. Found their voice. And it's been really interesting, to see over the past several months with what's going on from a social justice standpoint, like how different athletes are finding their voice and different people have perspective to speak on that. but without going too much in that one narrative that we've heard you speak about, is around the idea of the broke athlete and. Not only does people say shut up and dribble. They don't want to hear you talk about social justice. But before that, there was people that didn't want to hear about athletes getting involved in business.

Right. So unpack that for us a little bit, the part about, athletes doing things off the court and you know, how you've, you've found your lane as it relates to that.

Yeah. You know, I think I learned a lot about it at Notre Dame and it wasn't necessarily specific to athletes, but Notre Dame was very much. Pro meeting new alumni, networking with alumni and, and making sure you utilize that Notre Dame network, one of their big, you know, recruiting pitches is it's a four year decision that will positively affect 40 years of your life.

The community that Notre Dame builds is incredible. And the alumni, obviously that come from there are diehard Notre Dame fans as they should be. And Notre Dame supporters. And, as an athlete there. it brings them back to watch your games and you want to connect with them. So I kind of took that same approach when it came to the MBA, you know, while I'm involved in the MBA, I've heard. The PA the league, I heard a countless people say, Hey, while you were involved, that's when people want to know you most that's when you can be best at networking. And because I had some practice with it, I know her name. I took it. You know, I was my rookie year here. I went to all the tech summits were venture capital.

I went to some of the real estate symposiums, even though I knew a little bit about it already. And I just wanted to meet people who are interested in those same spaces within the MBA, but also the professionals that they brought in that were. Doing it full time as their day job and in the business world.

So for me, it was really about making sure I took advantage of that from day one, met the people that sat courtside and met the people that had the same business interests as myself and met some that had different business interest in myself, to be honest with you just to learn about it. And so, I think. That's kind of where it started for me. and then as I got more into it, or at least more into the real estate stuff, since that's kinda my bread and butter, I noticed there were a lot of guys that had interest in it. And a lot of guys that were kind of wondering, Hey, why is this rookie second year guy taking these meetings in the hotel, lobbies with these guys that are in suits?

Or why is he on the plane? Typing up emails or on his computer all the time, you know, have a book out about real estate, reading it, like what, what is he doing? And, Portland was great from a team standpoint where guys wanting to know more than just the basketball about each other, you know, they got to know each other on a personal level.

And as more guys found out what I was into. They want it to learn more about it. And we had conversations about it. And as I kind of saw, you know, everyone's seen the 30 for 30 broke and how, you know, obviously athletes, NFL MBA specifically at go broke shortly after their careers are over. you know, I was in a fortunate position because of my dad's background, obviously in real estate that I was exposed to at a young age.

So. When I first got in the NBA, I wanted to make sure I invested my money into something that I knew, because I didn't know how long I would be in the MBA. I wanted my money to start working for me right away. But what I saw was a lot of MBA athletes understood or were coming around to the idea of understanding that investing their money and having their money work for them is important.

It was just, what are they investing in? And some of them are investing in their cousin's restaurant idea, which not all are bad, but. More often than not, the restaurant business is kind of hard and it's about trying to guide them. And, and, and what I saw was there was a little bit of like a, soft spot where guys needed some guidance, but. You also hear all those horror stories getting taken advantage of by businessmen. So being in a unique position, being a player in the NBA, being part of that fraternity, if you will, but also having some real estate and business expertise on the back end, you know, it was great to be able to talk with them about it and, kinda educate them.

And then ultimately they ended up wanting to get involved and trying to help get them involved in some of my projects and making sure that they understand. Yeah, we're going to make some money in these projects, but I want you to be involved because you want to learn. You want to understand why we're doing what we're doing in these projects. It's not just, here's my money. Give me a 20% return a it doesn't really happen in real estate in a year and be, I want you to feel like you're understanding what's going on because whether you invest in real estate in the end, by yourself or not. Every professional athlete wants their dream house.

They want a vacation home. They want things that involve real estate. And I thought it was important for them to understand how it gets built, why it gets built, what the financial side of it looks like, why it's an asset versus a liability. Like I started to see a lot of NBA guys, but pro athletes in general, they thought they were involved in real estate because they owned a house or they owned a vacation home and. Unless you're renting that out. That's actually the liability. That's not an asset on your, on your cashflow sheet. you have to have an investment property that's bringing in money, not just own a property that you're hoping goes up in assessed value because that's when you kind of get in trouble.

yeah, I think to key in, on the most interesting point that you said there was about taking ownership of that capital and not just looking at it as a passive investment, right. That's one of the things that we've heard from some of our guests on the shows, or even just guys that we've had, you know, on again, off again, conversations with being taken seriously, sometimes is a struggle for guys where they're like, look, I've got this capital.

I want to invest. But if you're only going to be passive with it, then, being taken seriously by the business community or the investing community, it's going to be a challenge. And so I think that the one that's like, Hey, it's your money be active with it. But two it's like the more active you are with it, the more people see you day to day on the site, or, you know, whatever, whatever it is in your field, the more they're going to say, okay, this is not just a guy with a big checkbook.

Like he actually. Cares about this stuff. Have you seen that aspect change? Has guys see you more sort of actively involved? They go, Oh, it's not just, you know, it's such as patent and his people it's actually Pat, like he's involved in this.

Yeah. And honestly, I've seen it benefit. Or make guys more interested in getting involved with my stuff because they know, I know what I'm talking about. And my goal is, Hey, yeah. To make them money, but B for them to get some confidence in the same type of lingo, if you will, like real estate is like another language construction.

Like the stuff that goes on through it, it's like speaking a different language. And that's where I see most guys get taken advantage of, I've seen guys on my team in the past. Redo their house and a contractor screws them over and he charges them a couple of hundred grand more than it should be charged.

And some of them don't even know. And then there's some of them, if they find out they ended up in a legal dispute and it's a whole mess. Right. So immediately that's where I think the change has to start at the beginning is, Hey, athletes are the most supremely confident guys, right? But in their profession, not necessarily in business.

So when they're on a job site and they're talking about their investments, they're talking about investing, whether it's venture capital, whether it's real estate or whatever. Sometimes they're not that comfortable sitting in that board room with the businessman who are using terms that they don't necessarily understand.

And what I've seen is all those terms can be simplified business. Men, try to use them to sound smarter and they are very smart. So I don't want to take anything away from them, but. Athletes didn't have the same background. Right. So I like being that hybrid and I think I can really helping that hybrid because I can simplify, I can paint you.

The picture real estate is not complicated. It can be very simple. but it depends on the terminology using it depends on the audience. And you want to know who you're talking with, whom you're talking to and what you're talking about. And as guys have gotten more comfortable with it. They'll start to bring suggestions to me as, Hey, what do you think about this project that I was looking at?

Whether it be for their own investment property or their house, or they're trying to think a little bit better about maybe I don't just buy a house that's done. Maybe I'd buy this house. I fixed it up a little bit. Cause I have a little bit of expertise in it. I'm increasing my equity in it with a little bit of debt and there's just some terminology there that they feel a lot more comfortable with.

I love that. So, so why don't we use this as an opportunity to do a little bit of a primer on getting involved in real estate investing? So let's imagine Tim just signed a great extension of this team. He's excited. He wants to get involved in real estate. Good job, Tim. so let's, let's do this. what are the stages of getting involved in investment property?

Let's take it from the top, from purchase and then work our way down. So help us talk through what are the phases or stages of getting involved in an investment property?

So I'll explain it kind of in two different ways. I'll explain it as the simplistic, one of the high level investment property stuff. Now I'll kind of explain it, how I look at things.  And, you know, the simple side of it is location's the number one in all real estate, no matter whom you're doing real estate with, no matter what real estate you're doing, location is most important.

that is, they say the top three rules in real estate location, location, location. so. When you're looking for an investment property, you want the location to be desirable. That's why people are one of the main reasons people are going to want to rent it. Right? You want to do a little bit of market research?

Hey, what? You're going to be able to buy it for, be what you're gonna be able to rent it for those prices. Are often termed in price per square foot. So when you look at something, you want to be able to buy it for X price per square foot, and you've gotta be able to rent it for more than that price per square foot.

or else you're going to be obviously going the wrong direction with your cashflow. for me, for, for our stuff, we also, we develop everything. So not necessarily ground up, but like we look for products. In real estate investing, you can look for two things. You can look for buildings that are already done.

I have a cap rate that it basically tells you the percentage of it's a six cap rate, six, six one five, whatever it is, the percent return you can expect annually. You don't have to do anything for you. You don't have to develop it. That's just where the money has got to flow. As long as it is rented and not vacant.

for us, we look at buildings that quite frankly, people don't want. Because they don't look that nice. They're not, as desired, but they're in a pretty good location. We like to call it the worst house on the block, right. Because we know with my dad's expertise as a general contractor and me being around the business a little bit, we can add value to that.

So we're increasing our equity in it, and then our rental costs or price per square foot can go up so we can make a little bit more, it's a little more risky, but you can make a little bit more as long as you know what you're doing. For the stuff that I do personally, I try to use my competitive advantage.

you know, athletes, everyone's good at different stuff.  it's easy to explain it to MBA guys because everyone has their own role. Yonis does everything. I come off the bench, bring energy, play defense, shoot, try to dunk a few times, whatever, like, well, we're all playing our role to help win the game. and that is your competitive advantage. What you do, you do it well, I go back to just the network, like I want to use my platform as an MBA guy. Now there's obviously people that are going to want to take advantage of you from a money standpoint. Cause you're MBA guys. So you're gonna have to weed those out, but I try to use my platform to meet all the real estate people in the city that I'm in.

So in Milwaukee, for example, I've met a ton of real estate developers, a ton of people that are involved in the real estate. And I try to find one that, You know, I trust and I can develop a relationship with, and then I try to get to know who owns all these different buildings around the city. I drive around the city.

I identify a few buildings that don't look great, but they seem being good locations. As I get a handle on the location and you can online and tax records. Are you going to just find who owns them? And I try to develop a relationship with I'll reach out with them. the one benefit I have being an NBA player for the Milwaukee bucks is.

Oftentimes I can get a call back, someone gets the call and I says, yeah, it's back on them from the box. I'm going to get a call back now. Sure. They might give me an astronomical price and that's it, that that deal didn't work. But there's going to be some that want to develop a relationship that may not want that building, or maybe in a situation where they want to sell it.

And they just want an easy deal. They want to deal with realtors. They want it to be a, you know, a closed door kind of deal. You'll find those more often than you think. So I try to use my platform there. And then I try to use my platform from a standpoint on the backend, as far as how can I rent these units?

Like I try to build units that I'm proud of, not just necessarily market rate units, but things that appeal to the people that I know. So my teammates, young professionals in business, Older professionals that are sitting courtside around the arena, that maybe they had a big house and their kids went to college and they want to move down to the city where some of my projects are because they're going to be in Florida during the winter or whatever.

Like I try to build high end stuff that appeal to the people that I know, because I just look at it from the backend. Like if I was going to rent a building, I'd want to know my landlord. It's a lot easier if I know my landlord, I can give my landlord a call because it's. My coach, or in this instance, one of my teammates, a I'd probably give them a deal and they'll probably get a deal and be, if if I have any problems with it, I know who I can go to and ask questions about.

And it's pretty easy to do so, if I can have an effect on who's renting it that's immediately money. Like. Empty buildings not making you any money. And you can have an effect on that using your competitive advantage. Pretty seamlessly.

how often is it that you are having those conversations that come out of your, your access as a pro athlete? Hey, it's Pat Cunnington from the bucks were within about the first 30 seconds or maybe five minutes. The guy realizes. Oh, yeah. He actually really knows what he's talking about.

 It happens pretty quickly. And it's, and it's funny when you see the face, like I explained it to two guys who invest in my project, I explained it pretty simply as far as like.  for the most part, like I try to just develop the relationship. I'll make sure that they know, I know what I'm talking about, but I don't want to make them feel bad because I still want to do a deal with them. You know what I mean? It's all about having kind of that feel that people's skill.

And that's kind of what real estate is You need to make sure the numbers work. You need to make sure that, you know, the cost to build the cost per square foot, the rental market, how many units you can get in what the price per square foot of rental is going to be the numbers on the backend have to work.

But a lot of real estate is just making deals. And that's kinda what I enjoy most is what can I buy it for? Who can I get in to rent it? Sometimes I got it leased up and someone wants to buy something. All right, great. we'll see what I can sell it for. But for the most part. The way I look at it in the way I believe us athletes should look at it and all the people that invest with me kind of agree with it.

And that's, those are the people I'm trying to attract within the athletic world. We're at a fortunate position where we have an ability to make money for five, 10, 15 years. The investments that I'm doing is trying to grow a portfolio that has passive income and the majority of that passive income sure will start right away, hopefully, or within a year, once it's developed.

It might be 1500 bucks a month. It might be two grand a month. Those members aren't going to break the bank. Right. But as time goes on on that mortgage, and that debt starts to fall off 10 years, go by, you got a 15 year mortgage, 15 years goes by that mortgage is completely off. We're done playing. That two grand a month turns into eight grand a month.

And if I did three projects a year that eight grand turns into 16 turns into 24 each year. All of a sudden I got 10, 1520 projects that our mortgage is fallen off year after year. When you're done with basketball, you can start to create a pretty. Gracious stream of income for yourself. And that's kind of the picture that I painted these guys.

And that's the goal of what we're doing. We want longterm partnerships. I want to be cutting. These guys checks for years and years to come. And I want them to feel empowered. Like, Hey, I own these properties. I did this, they made the decision to invest. They were came to the job sites. They saw the jobs, they were, they wanted to learn why we were doing what we were doing.

They became businessmen.

Yeah. So how active is your pursuit of other athletes to get them involved? Is it just right now, kind of on a job by job basis as you're, you're putting these projects out there or are you actively trying to create a bigger fund that can have a wider footprint?

That's a great, great question. Especially from the timing standpoint. so for the last two, three years, it was just project by project. The NBA is like a fraternity, word travels kind of fast. And, I was fortunate to be in the New York times for the real estate stuff, you know, a few months ago.

And that brought up a lot, a lot of interest from honestly pro athletes across different sports, not just the NBA. And, what I'm trying to kind of create now is, you know, fund sometimes has like a negative connotation to it, in the private equity world and the venture world, the fund is made and a lot of it.

Is based off fees and that's not my goal for it personally. Like my goal is to align myself with the investors and with the guys within the league. So I call it an investment vehicle. So,  It actually hasn't been released yet, but in the next week or so, like, I'll start to raise a little bit of money, for the investment vehicle.

And the goal will be to get a group of guys who kind of understand, get a good group of guys together, who want to be involved, who want to learn about it and kind of put something so that they have equity in a bunch of different projects. It's not just one project going, gonna have an equity in the next. Six to 10 projects that we do over the next three to four years. they'll be able to see the differences in each project, why we're choosing to do each project, what it looks like when it starts, whether it's just land or whether it's a crappy building and what it looks like when it's done, when it's, you know, high demand, people want it.

It's a high end luxury building that is a rental, you know, investment, property play. And, You know, most importantly, I think it's gonna be about bringing together a group of athletes, who they want some privacy in what they're doing in the business world. You know, they don't, when they want to build their house, the second the contract that comes out, they know who that person is.

They understand, but. I can kind of get away with, Hey, I know the language and B I don't always look like a pro athlete all the time. So, when I go to John's, when I go to meetings and things like that, they're able to be involved in some of the, and all the projects that we're doing for the next three to three, four years, without having to worry about being taken advantage of. 

Yeah. Do you think there's a conflict of interest for wealth advisors? Cause a lot of these guys, they have their, their accountants. Sometimes that accountant is also a wealth advisor. That's putting their money. And the public, or even, you know, now increasingly private equity and venture capital, but you don't really hear of those folks targeting real estate as a potential asset class.

Right. You hear about athletes that go out and do it themselves. We had Derek Morgan from the Titans. Who's talking about building his sports complex out in Coatesville where he's from, because he obviously sees a dual purpose, right. One, there's an opportunity for him in those opportunities zones, but to, he wants to get back to his community, right.

Do you think that there is a conflict of interest for wealth advisors in terms of pushing their guys towards real estate opportunities?

I wouldn't use a conflict of interest phrase, but I would use, I think there's a disconnect. so it's funny when, when I deal with, guys, I want to invest in, in, into my real estate projects. I talked to them, obviously, first and foremost, and I had that conversation. I paint that picture for them. I'd say 50, 50 of percent of the time. they want me to talk to their financial guys, which I'm more than happy to do. There's been a few that have been on the phone with their financial guys, like three or four times before, the financial people feel comfortable investing, or telling the athlete, Hey, we feel comfortable that you invest in it. I would say the good financial advisors look at. The deal and they see it's a good deal. They see it's a good diversification of their portfolio and they recommended the bad ones. See it, Hey, this isn't money that I'm going to be controlling. I'm not going to be making a percentage off it.

So I'm not gonna, I'm not going to recommend it. And sometimes you just got to sit down and have a conversation with the athlete. it. It's a lot easier for me because. I'm in the fraternity, you know, a week we can see eye to eye we're coming from the same, same angle. And more importantly, they can see like the last three, four years I've been doing this all of my own money.

So I'd continue to do this with my own money if I wanted to, or I do anyway, but I continue to do with my own money if I didn't want to help guys. And I didn't think it would help me do more projects. Right. at the end of the day, I'm very open and transparent and honest with them. Like your investment is going to help me do more than two projects a year.

Cause with my capital being a second round, right. Being on a minimum contract, I'm not on me, CJ McCollum trains. So I don't have the ability to do right. Not yet for sure that Tim, you are, you just signed an 

extension. so it does help me, but to the same token, they wouldn't be able to be involved and such private, real estate investment. If it wasn't. That they were dealing with somebody who had that expertise in it. Right. So, right away, I'm kind of open and transparent with them on that. And I just explained to them the numbers, I can paint them the picture in the terminology that they get, that it's easy for them to grasp. It's easy for them to understand.

And I bring them to the job sites whenever they want to come by the job sites, come by. You'll see what we're building. You'll see where your money's going. You'll see exactly what's going on. and you'll understand why. This is a great investment and I can walk you through past jobs that I've done, why it works the way they work, why they've been successful, how we've been able to do it. and and I think, I'm just using my platform to try to a. Get more athletes involved so that in 10, 15 years, they're like, damn Pat, why are you? You're still cutting me checks. Yeah, dude, like, this is why we did this. this is exactly why you took that 250 grand, that 500 grand, whatever. And put it in some of these projects because when you're done playing and we don't have the same source of income, you'll still have income coming in.

Right. and B. You know, it's, it's what I would be doing anyway. So it's kind of cool to get the guys who I've developed great relationships with involved. And look, we don't take on every, in every guy that's interested. it's important for me to enjoy who I'm working with and Hey, understand who I'm working with.

Like I've had guys say to me. All right, so I'll give you a hundred grand in a year. You're give me back 200 grand. No, that's not how it works. And if that's what you're expecting, like this isn't going to be for you like this. Isn't going to be a good partnership. Like I don't, I don't need you calling me every single week saying when's the building going to be done.

The building takes 12 months to get, to get built. You know what I mean? It takes 18 months to get built and leased, the whole. If it's from the ground up, it's a renovation, maybe a little less, but you've got to be able to understand you want to, like, you want to attract the right guys and be working with the right investors that kind of understand the vision of what you're trying to build and want to be along for that ride, as opposed to just taking on money because it's money.

Yeah. And that's one of the things that, that people, whether it's venture capital, private equity, or sort of anywhere. The two themes that I sort of heard you talk about. And I think we see on the, on the VC side it's trust and access, right? Whenever somebody is evaluating your fund for investment, the two things they're going to ask is like, okay, do Tim J or Pat have access, which you clearly do being part of that fraternity, but also having, you know, around the real estate world.

And then two is, do you have the trust and that that's, I think that's more on you, right? The access is the track record. But the trust is, you know, is a startup going to trust him, or Jay is a real estate developer gonna trust Pat. And that's where you have to really earn your keep. And I think to your point, that the smart thing that I heard there is like, you don't take everybody on the same way that we wouldn't take anybody on as an LP.

We have certain standards for who we want and what we need that trust and access component, I think is such a smart thing. When you're raising, I don't want to say a fund when you're raising an investment vehicle to make sure that those two things are top of mind.

Yeah, look, I think trust is the most important, the access a hundred percent, because at the end of the day, you have to perform, right. someone can trust you and if you're not making any money and your deals suck, like eventually that trust gonna run out or at least they're going to stop giving you money.

Right. But I think trust is important and probably the most important because, not every deal is going to go as great as you want it to. Right. And look in real estate and in the stuff that we're doing, I think we're in a good position. Like we have the ability to develop, right? So from an assessed value standpoint, we're not looking to sell our projects, but we're at least building a little bit of cushion.

Like the building that we bought, literally the one that I'm outside of right now, The building we bought, it was, we bought it for 300 grand, 325 grand, right. It's going to cost us 900 grand to build this structure. We're going to be into it for 1.25, but the assessed value of that building because of what we're putting into, it is going to be 1.5, 1.6, one point, somewhere in that range.

Right. So if we wanted to sell it, sure. We might be able to make a couple of hundred grand, but really why we're doing that is so that we, our debt. Is less than the assessed value of the building. We want to make sure we have a little bit of cushion there in case the market, which it does turns. Right. but we're also able to rent it for more like that.

Cashflow becomes more. But what I was trying to say is not every deal goes well. So you want to make sure that you have the trust of your investors to say, Hey, look, we're working through this deal. Hey, maybe we wanted to sell. Maybe we pre proformas one to sell. It's not selling for the number we want.

We got to, we got to go and kind of pivot real quick and rent it. We're still gonna make money. It might not be as much, but if I can go to an investor and say, Hey, look, we're going to make money. It's not gonna be as much, but we're not going to be in the red. I need your help because I want to pivot. If there's a trust there, then they're a lot more willing to do that.

And you have a lot better working relationship. 

in my opinion, 

Yeah. And it's what you said. You're setting the table with, look, this is. Not a get rich quick scheme or plan or whatever. And so that's only going to attract a certain kind of investor or investment. Anyway, it's interesting in terms of timing. So today we're recording this on June 30 a month from today, you'll be down in the bubble, hopefully, with a bunch of other guys, obviously I would assume your goal is to win a, an NBA championship, but are you going to be going down there with a stack of business cards to, to start talking to some guys about this.

It's funny, you asked that I actually got quite a few, a few guys that want to chat at the first few weeks in the bubble. We get down there somewhere in the first two weeks of July. we we start playing the end of July. So there'll be a two week period there where all of us are stuck in the bubble, just practicing. there's been quite a few guys that have reached out that one of the chat about this, try to get involved in that, That investment vehicle, if you will, that a lot starts, probably, you know, rollout and yeah. And start to collect and Brits, get some guys involved in, during those first few, few weeks in July and, and just kinda set the table for other guys, you know, I think. That's the benefit of the MBA. I've gotten a few guys involved, handful of guys involved now. And I hear from guys who I didn't even have their contact, just because of the word of mouth that it spreads through the fraternity of the MBA. So, I'll tell, I'll definitely take advantage of being in the bubble and trying to make sure that, you know, I kind of just show guys what I'm doing. I think the best part was in the reason that I've had it, the most interest is just because. My goal was never to get guys to invest. My goal was just to educate them on the stuff that I'm doing and I'd be doing it, like I said, with, or without them, like, it's, it's gotta be done regardless. And when guys hear that and guys kind of see what I'm doing and it's easy and it's an easy picture for me to paint for them.

They want to get involved and it's been organic and I think that's the most important thing. It hasn't been a sales job. It's just been organic investments and organic investors. And, you know, that's kind of the way I want to continue to grow it.

Yeah, that's awesome. It's going to be really interesting to see all the different things guys are doing down there. I think there's a lot of excitement around just bringing it back to like the AAU days. 

I know it really will be, it'll be like 

the best AAU tournament ever. 

So, so Pat, we touched on this a little bit earlier and I'd love to expand on this. Cause I think, you talking about not being a sales pitch, you're you're in this world. So there's organic interest. Well, I know, just from, from a background, like my dad and I have a rental property, right.

And the lessons we learned, just getting that thing going in 2013 and now having had it for seven years. There's stuff that you just don't know until you get into it. What are some of the pitfalls that guys who maybe are thinking about real estate themselves, or, you know, want to get involved with you?

What are some of the pitfalls getting involved in the real estate business that you've now learned over the years that you've been involved in it and how can you help some of the guys avoid it?

I think it starts with just knowledge of, of what a investment property or rental property entails. And it starts with what. Type of clientele and tenants that you're going to be aiming for. Right. you know, if you're doing section eight housing, it's going to be different than if you're doing market rate stuff and you don't market rate stuff is going to be different than if you're doing the high end stuff.

It's just, the clientele is different. but you also have to understand, the finances behind it and where the costs come from, the maintenance comes from Who's managing that property. Are you managing in house? Do you have a company that you're managing that collects a fee? Are you just trying to manage it yourself, but have a maintenance guy that gets the call at two in the morning when a pipe breaks, like there's going to be things that you have to plan ahead for.

And I think, that's sometimes what's overlooked by guys. Kind of, like I mentioned earlier, I had a few guys say, Hey, I'm in real estate. I have a house in LA. that, you know, I live in. Atlanta, but I have a house in LA. All right. Well, was that house in LA doing? Oh, it's just sitting there. Like I bought it for X and I'm hoping in a few years it's worthwhile, well, that's not an investment property because Hey, you're not making money until it actually sells.

And what something Zestimate is versus what someone actually pays you for. It can be two different things. and that's where the market goes like this, right? So it's a liability until you sell it. And until you sell it, you don't know what you can sell it for. So, From an investment property standpoint, like you want to know high level, at least what those numbers become.

I'll give you a real time. The job I'm sitting outside of right now, we bought it for three 25. Like I said, it's gotta be 900 K to build it. We're into it for 1.2, two, five. And, That 900 K is going to cost me six and a half grand a month. There's property tax guys forget about property tax it's property tax in Milwaukee is 2.2, 5% of the assessed value.

Cause that assessed value is 1.2, which is what we'll be able to base it off of because that's what equity plus debt will be in for after the first year they might come out and assess it at 1.5, that property tax number goes up. Hopefully not, but hopefully for it's a blessing and a curse, but that property tax is going to cost me 2,500 bucks a month.

Right. So right there, we're up to let's call it 65 plus 25. We're up to nine grand a month in costs and carrying costs. I need to know what I can rent. It's a three unit building is a three bedroom. Penthouse is a two bedroom, two story building, and there's a one bedroom loft. There's indoor parking, which has a little bit of a benefit, but there's three units.

What can I rent those units for? Well, they're going to be a little higher end, but let's conservatively project that on market rate stuff, the two bedroom that's about 1400 square feet. We'll rent for. 25 to 2,700. So we'll call it 25. The one bedroom will one for 1700. It's about 900 square feet. And the top floor, it's about 3,400 square feet.

It's a big apartment. Then house three bedrooms. That'll rent for about six grand. Right? So we've got, we got, excuse me, 1700, which is 7,700. And then we got 2,500, which brings us up to just below, like 11 grand. Right? So we're at about. We're at about like 11 grand. So we're making two grand a month. That doesn't seem like much for most guys who like to run a month.  that's not a lot, but my normal paycheck. Right. But what they don't understand is look, it's two grand a month. That's 24 grand a year. I only put in 350 grand. That's like a 7% return, 6.8% return. Right. that doesn't include the equity that I'm building in the building.

that's where I think guys miss is, I'm making two grand net. But someone's paying down my mortgage every single month. Those three units being rented is paying down my mortgage every single month. So in 10 years, that random or 15 years is since that's what the mortgage will be on it, it will be a 15 year, right. In 15 years that to read them off, we'll turn into we'll lose the 6,500 mortgage. We'll still have the 2,500 property tax. So if we're making 11, we lose the 6,500. We're only got $2,500 worth of expenses that turns into nine 8,509 grand a month. That nine grand turns into 108,000 bucks a year. Off that one property.

I do three of those properties a year that 108 turns into 315 years. That 300 and the next year it turns into six turns into nine. It turns into one point guys can kind of see that picture, but from the investment property standpoint, that's kind of what you have to look at high level, because if I couldn't rent these units and I always do conservative just because I want to mitigate risk.

If I couldn't rent these units for what I say I could read them for. And there were only going to rent for a total of. 8,500 a month. Now I'm losing a thousand bucks a month. That's a huge problem. And what if I can't rent them? What if one of them's vacant now I'm down even more and what if a pipe breaks and one of them, or, you know, you've got to redo the roof because it's not a brand new building that costs three, four, five, 10 grand, that 24 grand goes to 14.

You start to lose that cushion. You start to lose some money and you've got to really start to think about all these things. And I think. It's time. It's energy it's effort. It's, it's what you're getting paid to do. It's why you're doing it. and I don't think every guy looks at it that in depth, which is where you can get in trouble.

and I mean, it's so, what's so fascinating to me is just how clear your depth of knowledge is of the individual markets you're talking about. And so in this case, you were talking about Milwaukee and, you know, you were in Portland for three years. Like what a unique position to be in where. You're fully immersed in a market, you know, I'm sure you'd love to play in Milwaukee for the rest of your career, as long as you possibly can.

But at the same time, you know, there's guys that a lot of the guests that are shows I've tried from the NBA, they've played in a lot of different markets. So what do unique position to be in, to get fully immersed in those markets? Understand the market from a real estate perspective, build the connections in the network through, like you said, people sit in courtside or whatever else it may be.

Is that something you. Felt like you had the foresight about when you started to get into it back when you were in your Portland days or are you just really starting to realize like how powerful that is and also like, how would things be different if you weren't in markets like Milwaukee in Portland, but you were in like, you know, in New York or in LA, like, would you still be doing kind of the same types of properties?

So like, I haven't like not, everything's worked out to plan for me, like anybody that tells you everything's made money and everything's worked out the plan. Isn't, isn't telling the truth. In my opinion, like you got to learn a little bit now I've been fortunate. I haven't lost money on any deal, but I've come close.

I've broken even on a few. And that was back at the beginning. Like when I first got to Portland, I tried to flip two homes that's kinda what my dad did a little in the Boston area. He played more than the luxury market though. And he knew that really well in Boston and in Portland, you know, quite frankly, that's how I had to start.

I didn't have the money to do the rental properties. I, my first contract was 600 grand for the first year and 800 for the second. And you know, I tried to do the house flip game as I started to see more, more like that. Didn't set up well for. My financial future, flipping houses, you make 50 grand, you're making a hundred grand.

If you're lucky to make 200 grand, you pay taxes on it. You got a 10 31 exchange it. You got to do some things that, in my opinion, for a professional athlete, aren't worth the hassle. In my opinion, in the growth of a portfolio of the things that I'm doing now is what's going to benefit us longterm as a professional athlete, because of just the structure of the financial being.

So, I started to see that early on and what I started to see when I decided to switch to the more creating of a portfolio growing of a portfolio is kind of what you're alluding to two is I want to do it in markets that I know. Or that I have a platform that I can get to know relatively easily. So I try to stick to the areas that I know, and then slowly expand into other areas if I have a platform in those areas.

So I want to work in Boston because that's where I'm from. And that's where my dad's done work. And I know that we know that market. We actually don't have anything in Boston right now because the Boston market so high, but eventually we'll, we'll have stuff in Boston, Notre Dame. university in Orlando is in South bend, Indiana, South bend, Indiana.

Isn't a hot for real estate, but around the university that has the tradition that has the alumni that are of high net worth. It has some great real estate stuff. And because of who I was at Notre Dame and the two sports and the AC championship and all that stuff, and the people that I've gotten to know at Notre Dame and who make those decisions, I can get the inside scoop on where no names developing next.

I can piggyback off of it. I can find some development sites in those areas to kind of help grow. And in real estate, like. If someone's developing here and I'm developing here, we're both helping the value of our land, right? So it works for both parties. And then in Milwaukee, it's where I play currently.

We're on a good team and I've been fortunate to be in the dunk contest and, and get involved in the community and do some things that have helped me create relationships that give me an inside track on certain real estate opportunities that may not be on the market and any real estate opportunity you can get that.

Isn't on the market is a much better one than that one that is on the market. You just gotta look at it from the backend. Like if I'm selling something, I'm going to put it on the market because I think it's going, gonna be a bidding war. If I don't think it's going to be a bidding war, I'm going to try to get out of it as quickly as I can in a closed door sale.

Right. So I think you just gotta have to know that and I've fully immersed myself in the Milwaukee market because of that. Hey, I can get deals a little bit quicker that are a little bit under the table that are out of bed price and B I can have a little bit more of an effect on who's renting them because of the people I know around here and understanding the market and Milwaukee, understanding the market and South bend, understanding the market in Boston, because of those are the places that I know are are important.

And then I just think it makes most sense. look, there are plenty of real estate investors out there, so they're like, yeah, Charlotte, North Carolina is booming and Tampa, Florida is booming. What am I going to do with a building in Charlotte, North Carolina, or Tampa, Florida. I don't have a network there.

I don't have any relation to that area. I just sure it might work, but it might not. And I can't in a deal that doesn't go as planned. I can't have as much of a positive effect as I can in the Milwaukee, Notre Dame in Boston markets.

Yeah. It's, it's a matter of yeah. Having that leverage right. Where your, where your brand, or, you know, just your personal brand, not even like your brand as an athlete, but like your personal brand has some sort of value. you mentioned the signing bonus and so legend has it that the only thing you ever bought with that Saudi bonus was a Jeep Wrangler.

So shifting gears a little bit, I got to ask. How's the Jeep Wrangler doing and, you know, seven years later. And then why, why just that? Why, why was that the only purchase you made with that signing bonus?

So technically that wasn't the only purchase I made with that side bonus. That was the only purchase of something that wasn't an investment that I made with that

signing bonus. So,

the Jeep Wranglers going great. I still have it. my parents are actually driving it back home and Hampton New Hampshire at the moment. Because I quickly realized after buying the Jeep Wrangler, that cars depreciate relatively fast and it wasn't a great investment. So now I'm fortunate to be sitting in a vehicle that a dealership Koons auto gave to me for the year. So I'm driving a car that I don't own that I don't have to worry about.

And my parents are driving around with the top down, across the Atlantic ocean, right. Or on the coast of the Atlantic ocean right now. So they made out like bandits, but the only other thing I did was, when I got to Notre Dame, my dad still had his development company back in Boston. and one of the things he did my freshman year was he bought a house and he fixed it up to give him and my mom an excuse to be there, to watch basketball games.

They lived in it my sophomore year when they were out there, they weren't out there full time obviously. But, and then they sold it after my junior year. And when I got the signing bonus, After my junior year for baseball, me and my dad, we got a house with it. So we got a house that was fixed up that summer.

I lived in it my senior year and then we sold it afterwards. I made 75 grand on it and it was awesome. It was a great learning experience for me. And I had approached my dad saying I wanted to get involved in it anyway. And after that, and I got fortunate to be drafted in basketball. That's when I approached them and said, Hey, Can we start this full time?

Like, can you dissolve your development company back home? Can I start one that we worked together on and we hired my best friend, who I grew up with, Joe, who I've known since I was two. And it allows my dad to be in two places at once. So my dad's in South bend a lot with the buildings we have going up there.

Joe's in Milwaukee a lot with the buildings we have going on here. It's not that far away from each other so they can drive back and forth when needed. But he was gracious enough to say, yeah. And it's been cool to be able to work with him, but it was cool to be able to get that experience, you know, as a senior in college to kind of see how that works.

so so early on and, because it worked, it probably was a bad thing because then I tried to flip to in Portland that didn't work as well, but, it opened my eyes to just, you know, there's different ways to be involved in real estate. And the stuff that my dad did back in Boston was how he provided for my family.

Right. So when he. Developed a house or GC to house and then sold the house or GC fee, whatever, whichever one, it was, it was because that income was going to provide that for the family. Like that's what he needed to do to provide for my family. I have a day job. Us athletes have day jobs. We have an income that provides for our family.

This is more of a passive investment, something that you're building for the future. So the business models are different. Like flipping homes, don't benefit us. It's a little bit more risky with the market. You can have the ebbs and flows that you don't want to be involved in, whereas real estate in general.

And if you're doing it in the right location, and if you're creating value like we do from the development phase, and if you're able to have a positive influence or an influence at all, And being able to rent them and kind of create that cash flow. You're going to put yourself in a great position in the future, and that's kind of where our business model lies 

and will continue to lie here on out. 

well, Pat, you've been so generous with your time and your knowledge. We really appreciate you joining us today on, on the game plan.  you represent everything that the game plan stands for, especially making the most of your platform as an athlete while you're still playing, which we think is. A really big thing, and we're definitely gonna be pulling for you in the box here as you go into the bubble. 

  All right. Good, good. That's what I liked here. no, I love what you guys are doing. I think it's important. You know, I think it's important to share the stories of athletes who are using their platform and are getting involved in stuff outside of their respective sport while they're still playing.

You know, it's similar to, obviously the stuff that I'm trying to do with real estate, getting guys involved and you guys are being able to kind of broaden cast out and publicize that I think, you know, important for the world to see, because it is slowly but surely disproving the stereotype that the 31st 30 broke kind of placed on pro athletes.

Awesome.

that. Thanks for that.

Alright, Jay, great episode with Pat Cottington, let's get right into our partner rundown eight minutes on the clock, four topics. Where do you want to start? 

Tim. I want to start where we started with Pat, 

well, I love this. First of all, as a former athlete myself, you know, high school and college division three college basketball. I just love the idea of like having that choice. And obviously he earned it and you know, anyone who followed Pat in or looks back at his career and looked at his high school performance and then college performance would have said, No question.

He was going to majorly baseball. I mean, he was drafted in the fourth round. He was playing class eight ball. You could throw in the nineties. so he was set up perfectly for that, but the way he thought about it was a way I had never thought about it before. And that's, you know, the baseball opportunity, is it always, always going to be there?

But basketball, not necessarily the case, like you gotta be a young guy, you gotta get built in. And I also think the window of time was unique because he did this before what's now happening, which is most guys in his situation would get sent to the G league for a 

Right. Yeah, I think the interesting thing to sort of take from here is like, we talk about the idea of the athlete as a complete person. The person you are on the field or on the court is person. You are off the court and the kind of foresight that Pat showed even as a young kid and obviously having his group of folks around him that allowed him to see those two decisions and choose the one that made sense in the moment.

It's kind of reflective of how he is today. And I know we harp on this a little bit. We're like, Oh, the way you are as a players, the way you are when you retire. But at the end of the day, the person is the same. And so for Pat being somebody who's forward thinking, being somebody who has that foresight, who trusts the advice of the folks around him, allowing him to choose a decision.

To play today, even if he's coming off the bench to have that career. And then, you know, we were, I think I heard him say like, yeah, if he had to go out and pitch today, he could probably pitch somewhere in the high eighties, low nineties. So clearly he's made the right decision for him. I'm in this moment, even at this very young age,

All right. Next topic. We talked about this a lot on the game plan, starting to build something 

as an active athlete versus as a retired athlete. 

Yeah, I love the idea of, we talked about longterm thinking the way that Pat is sinking about learning today. And start, you know, you're, he, he came in and he said, look for me, obviously, having exposure to real estate from his dad, understanding some of the stuff, having, you know, even his first contract, going out and getting a rental property in Portland and like doing well on one of them making 75 K going bust on the other ones, the learnings that he had today.

I think it's such an important thing because, and we'll touch on this a little bit later, but like taking ownership of your money is so important, but for him right now, it's about learning and it's about setting the foundations that he's going to need to one day when he retires go be a full time real estate manager, developer.

So I love that piece of it.

yeah. In hitting on the topic we were talking about with. Baseball versus basketball. It's like, he also created this other option too. So if basketball wasn't going to work out, he also had baseball, but he also was building his nest egg or starting to plant the seed for the real estate opportunity, which I just love, I also love about it, the local aspect.

So we had asked the question, Hey, if you were in Brooklyn or LA or whatever, you know, would it look differently? And it's impossible to answer that question because that's just not the situation he was put in, but he's made the most of these opportunities. In these markets, Portland, Milwaukee, he's building slowly.

I mean, I think there's so much trust that can be earned in the fact that he was just flipping houses at first and based on his, you know, where his first contract was at, that's what he could afford to do. Right. He wasn't trying to do something greater than what he could afford to do. And I think with that, creates the opportunity to build a lot of trust and get other investors 

activated and want to be part of what he's doing. 

about this idea of trust him because we covered this a lot with athletes taking ownership of their money and not just being sort of passive checks in, what are your thoughts there?

Yeah, I think we've gotten to a place now where, the narrative around the broke athlete is mainstream. Yes. We talked about the 30 for 30 broke all the time. I think that's definitely part of it. But as a result, guys are being really responsible with their money, but they're also making more money on you than ever before, especially NBA guys with max contracts and how media rights deals have led to that led to a higher cap.

And so we're in this unique place in time where guys are being more conservative. They're listening to money. Managers are putting, you know, keeping really diverse portfolio, but. There's an itch to do more. There's an itch to, to take on some risk or do something direct. And I love the fact that, even though a money manager might not be recommending real estate, cause they don't take a fee on that. guys like Pat are starting to do things differently, doing things the way that they believe can win.

Well, and they understand the idea of passive income, right? So the way Pat broke it down and I loved it where he said, look, start putting money into it while you're still getting active income from your first career as a player. So, you know, you got to pay down a mortgage, you gotta pay property taxes at the end of the day, you're maybe taking home two grand a month.

Okay. That's not going to break the bank when you're making good money in your day. But look at a 10 or 15, your mortgage, you pay down that mortgage. Suddenly, all you had to do is pay property taxes, and you're now pulling in Haiti thousand 9,000 a month. Well, that's significant. If you've got a couple of different properties, you know, generating that for you when you're 30, 30, two 35, and you're no longer making those consistent game checks or, you know, God forbid you get hurt, you have to call upon some of that income in a sale or whatever it is.

So that kind of foresight again, comes back to the fact that like that passive income being built today is so powerful. 

It's an exciting time right now. The players are down in Orlando, they're in the bubble. What do we think is going on down there? What an opportunity to create content, 

you know, maybe make deals. What do you think. 

Yeah, the making deals part is really interesting. Right? So for somebody like Pat, you asked him like, Hey, Hey, are you printing business cards to go down there? And he said, Hey guys have reached out to me and said, when we get down to Orlando, I want to hear you talk about it. And you know, hopefully our conversation with him today can serve as a primer for some of these guys who don't understand the terms, want to get involved in it.

I love that for Pat, this is his ability to like, have a track record and have skin in the game. he can show guys that I've done this with my own money I leave and the stuff that I'm trying to serve you, right. Never trust a chef that doesn't eat his cooking. Pat is in here saying, aye, leaving this.

I believe this is what I want to be doing for the rest of my career. And if you want it on board with me, I've got the playbook, I've got the game plan to make it happen. So love the fact that he's got real skin in the game, in this.

Yeah. And, you know, we've seen the amazing things that the max contract superstars like LeBron and Katie have been able to do with their money, whether it's community impact, things around education, things in media. even venture investing, you know, a lot of the stuff that we get excited to talk to our guests about on the game plan. But what I think, is is one of the biggest opportunities is for players, maybe not of the superstar status, but players to come together around other things that aren't, you know, what we know, which is like media, but something like real estate. And so I'm really excited to see, you know, we're not going to know on.

the day after the NBA title, like, okay, what deals were formed, what's happening. But I do think we're going to look back at this time, you know, four or five years from now, 10 years from now and say, and start hearing the stories about how guys, you know, made connections with each other in the bubble. And it led to some huge deals, some huge opportunities, some household brands it's going to be really cool and exciting to see. 

excited for Pat and the rest of the NBA guys to get back on the court. And I want to thank you so much for joining me on this partner, rundown. That's it for this week's episode of the game plan with Jacob pore and Tim cot as always. Thanks so much for listening. A big thank you to JJ Redick for the intro to Pat, we really enjoyed having packed on it and on the show to share everything that he's been up to with his real estate investing and his excitement for the NBA coming back, make sure you follow Pat on Twitter and Instagram, as well as check out his recent feature in the New York times.

Hey, if you made it this far, congratulations, he must really like what we have to say. Find us on Twitter at the game plan show and leave us a five star review on iTunes.